- What should most people do if they are feeling frustrated with someone that they feel, for instance, 80% of your problems come from 20% of people. In this case where I guess we're saying, like 90% of problems come from these 10% of people, but really it behooves us all to try and figure out how best to interact with others.

And so you've spelled out a number of ways that we can do that today. If you were to highlight, I never want to pressure, but highlight one or two things to just keep in mind as one moves through the world, the web tool seems especially effective. Is there anything else that you recommend that we just hold in mind as we navigate forward?

'Cause it's quite a landscape out there. - Yeah, several things, and I can be brief with each of them. First, there's what I call the four forget about it's. Is forget about trying to give the person insight into how they're behaving. That blows up the person. Just like I said, don't blame them for you ending the relationship.

So just forget about giving them insight. Instead, talk about what we can do now. Talk about options. Talk about, don't go inward with them, go outward with them. So when you go inward, you escalate their defensiveness. So don't try to give them insight into themselves. And a lot of people say, how can I make him see that what he's doing is so wrong?

Or how can I make her understand that she's creating the problem we're trying to solve? Just forget about that. Talk about, okay, here's what our options are. Let's talk about what to do. Second is, don't emphasize the past. And people argue forever with high conflict people about the past, and you never resolve the past with a high conflict person.

And I'll tell you in a minute why that may be. Focus on what to do now and the future. Future focus, not past focus. Maybe you need some information to understand a problem, but then emphasize the future. The third is, don't focus on emotions. And especially don't yell at them, don't burst into tears, don't tell them how frustrating they are, all of that.

And this is what I'm gonna tell you now is a theory that I hope someone figures out. And that is, people with personality disorders and high conflict personalities don't seem to go through the five stages of the grieving and healing process. Denial, anger, bargaining, depression, sadness, and acceptance. They seem to get stuck at denial and anger.

So what happens is, they don't resolve things. They don't, quotes, get over things. They don't get over the divorce. They don't get over the job loss. They don't get over having to sell their house 'cause they couldn't pay the mortgage. They don't experience the normal human healing and grieving process.

So they're stuck. And so a lot of situations with them turn to anger. They're angry, but they're not resolved. So high conflict people are constantly talking about the past and how aggrieved they are. They shouldn't have done that to me. I was right to have done this. And people start, when I say that, like students in my class, oh yeah, that's what I see.

They keep repeating themselves. And they go to as many people as they can and tell the story. I believe they're trying to grieve and heal, but they don't have the mechanism. And I don't know exactly why. So I'm hoping someday neuroscience will figure out what connection is missing and can we give people that so that they can grieve and heal?

Well, what that means is if you focus on emotions, you're focusing on an area that's unresolved and has a lot of hurt. And so if you say, well, how do you feel about that? They almost always say, I feel terrible. I suggest not saying, how you doing today? Because the answer I get is terrible.

You know what she did yesterday. You know what he did last week. So instead, do small talk. Do it about anything except about how are you feeling today. So don't ask how you're feeling. Focus on thinking and doing. And an example I teach lawyers and mediators is don't say, how do you feel about that proposal?

Say, what do you think about that? Could you picture doing that? How could you do that? How could that work for you? Because if you focus, how do you feel? I feel insulted. I feel abandoned. And then they drown in that. And next thing you know, you've lost them.

So avoid emotions. Don't focus on emotions, but acknowledge emotions. Say, I can see your frustration. Now here's how I can help you today. The fourth is don't use names. Don't label people. Don't say you're a high-conflict person. And lawyers do that to motivate their clients. That doesn't work. Don't say you have a personality disorder.

You may be wrong, and that never motivates anybody. So that's the fourth. Forget about it. So that's key stuff for people to avoid. (upbeat music) (upbeat music)