This is my Twitter pitch meeting right here. Hey guys, what if we made a web page, but designed it as a panic attack? That's what it is. Yeah. What if it's a web page? And as you look at it, a pneumatic arm comes out from your computer and just pure epinephrine just.

All right. I'm Cal Newport. I'm here with Jamie Kilstein for the very first installment in a new show. We're trying that is called Cal and Jamie explain the internet. I will briefly summarize the premise here. And then Jamie, I'm going to ask you to try to explain to the audience why in the hell we would do this.

Yeah. Here's the, here's the problem. I'll be figuring it out while you talk right now. You have like 30 seconds to figure this out. Okay. So, so the, uh, the very well thought through premise that everyone thinks is a good idea is that, uh, I'm someone who sort of famously has never had a social media account.

So I really often don't know what's going on in the world of the internet. Jamie somewhat famously used to be a big user of social media, but as, uh, as many of his fans know, has been really trying hard in recent months and years to use that much less, which makes Jamie and I at this moment, two of the worst people in the world to try to explain to you trends on the internet.

So that is the premise of the show. We had my intrepid podcast producer, Jesse pull a collection of five articles, videos, or tweets that are big on the internet in the last week. He told me he was using Twitter trends, tech talk trends, and a program called tube buddy, which looks at what's trending on YouTube to try to figure out what are five things that normal internet users have almost certainly heard about.

Jamie and I almost certainly know very little about it, but we will still try nonetheless to explain to you what we think is going on or how we think people. Reacting. So Jamie, why are we doing this? Uh, well, we are doing this for a couple of reasons. Number one, it's very funny to maybe only us.

Number two, nothing in our friendship makes me laugh harder than when I would try to explain to Cal, uh, like very online TM stuff where I'm like, Hey, did you read about Glenn Greenwald? And Cal's like, no, I have a family and I'm happy. And I'm like, Oh, what's that like?

And then, uh, so I think it'll be very fun. I think it'll be very funny. I also think for all of you listening, who have read cows work, listen to cows podcast, or trying to get off social media less. Um, I think hearing some of the dumb stuff that we're probably going to cover, um, may be the nail in the coffin and may solidify it for you.

And, uh, if not, maybe also maybe Cal and I can give some non tribalized echo chamber takes on important issues. And maybe we'll accidentally stumble upon some really good stuff, uh, that you're not going to find on Twitter when everyone's just calling each other, either a cuck or Nazi.

Uh, and then the final reason, uh, selfishly. I still have to be on social media to promote my podcast a little bit. So I still post clips and stuff like that. I don't get into fights anymore, but I eventually would like to move out into the woods, uh, with my girlfriend and never see a computer again.

So I'm hoping that whatever is trending on tick tock today or in future episodes, uh, will drive me to become just, uh, just an armed, an armed father in the middle of the forest. Uh, and not a Nazi. Cuck, not a Nazi cock, not the worst kind of Nazis.

I cuckolded Nazis are the worst. And you see, this is how, you know, I am a professor, not internet user. I use the full term. Cuckolded. All right, Jamie, I'm loading. Number one. All right. You will. We have not seen these. We have not seen any of these. We took this very seriously.

Yes. Took this very serious. Okay. I'm going to click on a button here. We're going to share our first. Our first thing that was trending on the internet in the last week. Boom. Share. All right. We see a headline. Christopher Nolan recreated a nuclear weapon explosion without CGI. Jamie, what do you think is going on here?

Oh no. Uh, whatever. When I, I truly have not seen this. Um, I have not seen this story without CGI. Um, something dangerous. Is it something dangerous? Did he blow up a city? I like, is that possible? I like the fact, I mean, this is the same year. Alec Baldwin shot a lady, right?

Like one with like one gun, he shot a lady and Christopher Nolan saw that. And was like, you know what? I'm going to, I'm going to, I'm going to, I'm going to blow something up. I see. You think Christopher Nolan is big timing Alec Baldwin by murdering hundreds of thousands of people.

You know, this is probably the tamest story we're going to cover. And I accidentally made our opening, probably the most offensive thing to come out. You didn't say you were, you thought it was a good idea. I think it's a very bad idea. Yeah, there we go. Yeah, to be clear, but also I think anything post dark night, uh, of Christopher Nolan has been kind of underwhelming anyway, I'm a moment.

Uh, not sound like a hipster. I'm kind of a memento guy. Oh, you're talking to someone who saw Dunkirk in a 70 millimeter projection. So I'm going to argue about that. Uh, all right. Before we reveal here though, let me just say two reasons why I like Chris Nolan.

Uh, number one, I had some articles somewhere that he doesn't use. Like email, I think. Yeah. He has like an old flip. He's one of these guys. Like he's so focused on, I'm making these huge movies. All my attention's on that. I wrote an article about him a couple of years ago.

You're so true to brand. Well, the more of a hermit, this guy, someone is the more you're like, I'm in baby. Uh, and also he got really mad. I think he broke relations with Warner brothers when they started streaming. All of their movie productions on HBO max while they're in the theaters.

And Nolan was like, I'm out of here. So he's old school. Let's be in a theater, not on a phone. So I like him. All right. What's really going on here. All right. Here's to reveal. I'll read this since this text might be small. He recreated the first nuclear weapon detonation.

This is in his film Oppenheimer. I did hear about that. I'm a film geek about Robert Oppenheimer who ran the Manhattan project during world war II, the film. Blah, blah, blah. Don't bury the lead here, guys. They're talking about all the actors in this. Uh, how did he do this explosion?

Come on. No one has always favored practical effects over VFX. He blew up a real Boeing seven 47 for tenant respect. So it's no, uh, the bad news was it was, uh, an active Delta flight, but you know, you gotta do what you gotta do. Hey man, it's all for the art for the art.

Uh, it's that's why he doesn't have email or social media. So he can't be held accountable. Exactly. He doesn't want to hear the trolls who are going to prioritize. You killed a Delta flight of passengers. Like I'm doing art, baby. Um, so he said it'd be in the commenter.

Oh man, there's so much texture. So how did he do this? Uh, blah, blah, blah. I don't know. It looks like he just blew up a big bomb. Were people mad? I think what eventually we'll get to when we start getting these stories sent to us is like, I want to see people's reactions.

Right. Um, there are zero comments on this article. All right. This, so this is, this is a, this is an example I think of good internet, you know, where it's, here's like a quirky, interesting thing that you probably wouldn't have heard about, but if you're an internet user, you might've come across this, this was trending on YouTube or something.

You'd be like, oh, that's cool. He like made a big explosion. It looks like a nuclear bomb. Uh, I'm, I'm giving this a sort of good internet thumbs up. I think this is good internet. And this is going to be the difference between me and Cal as well is I am so used to, um, I'm so used to bad internet that I think I jumped in and made my little, made my little offensive joke just preparing.

So for example, I'm on a text thread right now. That the beloved movie, the whale, Brendan Fraser's like, you know, resurgence, staining ovation at all the film festivals, I guess Roxanne Gay wrote an angry, uh, wrote a piece about it because something about fat people. And, um, so I'm very used to, as I was part of back in the day, like 10 years ago, I'm very used to outrage culture.

So when I see something that you might rate as good, oh, what a cool, what a cool thing for a filmmaker to do. I'm just waiting for like my old friends to be like, this is offensive to bombs. And I'm like, I don't get it. Nice beard, Nolan. You have a problem with faces.

Yeah, I get it. So you're, you're locked in. You're locked in on. All right. I think this next one. I have it loaded here. This is a trending Twitter thread. So I think here we're going to maybe leave good internet. So let's see, I'm going to go back to share.

Yeah. Go back to share. I click on it. Here we go. We need theme songs for leaving good internet. Like just like a kind of cryptic, like rowing down the haunted river, kind of old Disney, uh, theme. Oh, it's, it's my buddy, Barry Weiss. This will definitely be bad.

All right. Let's see here. Thread the Twitter files, part two, Twitter's secret backlist. All right. Well, Jamie, you know, Barry, do you already know this story or are you, are you looking at this? I'm going to be honest with you. This is new Jamie. Old Jamie would have had so many takes on it.

New Jamie looked at that. It's something she's doing with journalist, Matt Taibbi, who I've also known for a while. And I just kind of go good for them. And then I click out of it. Um, I saw some people on both sides being outraged and I, I barely dude.

I mean, this is probably one of the biggest stories right now, period. And I have just like, I've I'm rewatching Jack Ryan since season three is coming out and just living my best life. So I, I I've heard about, like, I know this is happening. I know that that Elon Musk is, uh, releasing internal Twitter files to independent reporters.

So I know about that. And I know that there's some stipulation that they have to post about it on Twitter. I don't, I don't know a lot of the details. Let's not read this whole thing, but here's number point. Number one from this, right. By the way, can I just say, I wrote an article about Twitter for this one.

I think it was for Wired magazine early in the pandemic. And I made this point, this is such a terrible platform for any sort of complex information. Like, look at this, let's put all content aside. Look at the screen, this thread situation where you have like a couple of sentences and you have to link to another thing with a couple of sentences and number it.

It's like guys, websites exist, blogs exist. There, there has to be some way. Uh, it's crazy that this is like the number one way over the last three years, the complex information is, is yeah. It's not like we haven't cracked the tech yet. Yeah. This is my Twitter pitch meeting right here.

Hey guys, what if we made a webpage, but designed it as a panic attack? That's what it is. Yeah. What if it's a webpage? And as you look at it, a pneumatic arm comes out from your computer and just pure epinephrine. Just, there we go. Yeah. Uh, well, and then on top of that, it's like the algorithms make it harder to see certain people.

And well, that's kind of what this is sort of about. So read whatever part you want. All right. All right. So here's number, I'll read the first couple tweets, which again, I have to jump from tweet to tweet to read this. That's a tech issue. All right. A new Twitter files investigation reveals that teams of Twitter employees build blacklist, prevent disfavored tweets from twin trending and actively limit the visibility of entire accounts or even trending topics, all in a secret, all in secret without informing users.

Here's one example. Take for example, Stanford's Dr. J Bhattacharya. I do know who that is because I was a COVID nerd early in COVID who argued that COVID lockdowns would harm children. Twitter secretly placed him on a trends, a blacklist, which prevented his tweets from. Trending. All right. So this is a, this is about secretly.

Whatever throttling people on Twitter. Um, so what, what, all right. That makes sense. First of all, what's your take on it? Second of all, how do you think people reacted to this? I'm sure reasonably. Yeah, it's a, it's all bad. It's all bad. All bad. I think all of it, all of it's bad.

Um, well, what's funny is. You know, there, there are a bunch of different like memes that go around about conspiracy theorists where it's like, Hey, we've been right, essentially the last couple of years, and I hate to admit it, right. But there were a lot of people who were talking about shadow banning and soft banning and things like this.

And a lot of them were on the right. And a lot of people on the left were calling them delusional, calling them conspiracy, blah, blah, blah. I'm definitely shadow banned on Instagram and I haven't posted a damn thing about the vaccine. I'm just like mental health and dogs and comedy.

Um, and. You know, that kind of get made fun of and what Barry and Ty Eby uncovered is like, no, there are actually memos from the government being like, Hey, like to Twitter to, you know, being like, Hey, check out this guy. This is, you know, whatever. And a lot of the things they were posting at the time.

I think that people thought were dangerous because we didn't know as much about COVID as we did now. So it was a lot of like anti mask people. It was people who were skeptical about the vaccine. And, uh, and so they were just like, fucking shut it down. Um, and yeah, I think that's bad.

I think that we should have access to all information and then we should be able to make decisions for ourself. But my, what I would throw back to you though, is in the way social media works on our brains and the way tribalism works and these algorithm works. Is, is that actually naive of me?

And is it even possible to just, Hey, give us, give us information on both sides and we'll, we'll figure it out. Like, where do you draw the line, I guess, um, for this kind of like soft banning shadow banning. Yeah. Which, which has happened to us. I'm sure. Like, why did everyone stop talking to me?

Well, look, okay. I have a, I have a, like a. A small scale and big scale take on this. I mean, small scale take, uh, if you're going to run one of these platforms, you're going to have to make these types of decisions, right? Like we've seen that, um, you look at 4chan, like 4chan had to start making some of those decisions, which led to 8chan, right?

Like 8chan was people saying, uh, you cucks over at 4chan. Am I using cucks right by the way? Is that right? Yeah, sure. Dude, I know the Shakespearean reference. So, so I don't know if this is right. There's no wrong way to use that word. It is the funniest.

All right. So, so 4chan was just cucking along with a bunch of cucks and they had a cucking policy. Um, but anyway, so you have to, you're going to have to do this, right? Like there's going to be, uh, there's going to be cases where like, we don't want this on our platform.

We just, we have advertisers, right. Um, and then the, the dividing line is always going to be hazy. So the fact that, so Twitter is based in San Francisco, that, I mean, the number I saw is that 99% of their employees, according to public records, voted Democrat in the last one percent is Elon Musk and the other one percent was Elon Musk.

Yeah. Or I, I think they, they have, um, what's the name? Uh, Milo in a cage somewhere. Is that the right name? My, yeah, yeah. They kind of poke at them. They, they put tweets in front of him and if he gets excited, they ban them. I think that's the one.

But anyways, my, my point is, is like, okay. Uh, so how do you avoid them in that situation? If you're internally making decisions to have an Overton window, that's going to be just farther towards the farther left, um, than rest of the country. That seems unavoidable. Uh, making moderation decisions are unavoidable.

I mean, I don't know any answer to that in the small scale beyond, and this is what I thought Elon should have done, but you know, it seems like he might be going crazy. Uh, what he should have done was just said, yes, we have to make this moderation decisions.

Um, we're just going to balance out who's on these committees so that like that Overton window is roughly centered. Like I, I said this in a podcast a couple of weeks ago. Um, the standard should be, you know, if your mom would be kind of upset about something, and I don't mean your mom in particular, but just like millennials, moms, like people in their seventies, we have such like, okay, let's be, be worried about.

So like things where you would have to be like pretty up on sort of cutting edge political ideology to understand something is offensive. Like that probably wouldn't fall into like a standard, like what ups and downs. A couple of things real quick. I think that one, the, um, I love you pointing out that Elon Musk is going crazy because that means his billions of dollars, all the businesses he runs, that's not what made him crazy.

What made him crazy was a month on Twitter and he just fucking completely went like koohoo bananas. That is by the way, that is exactly what, and this is. I'm not talking out of school because this was during the episodes, what Sam Harris told me. Sam knows Elon and in my recent appearance on Sam's podcast, he told me on air, uh, Twitter broke Elon's brain, but, but he, he actually says it's not him buying Twitter that broke his brain.

He bought Twitter because Twitter had broken his brain. So he was so addicted to it. That's why he bought Twitter. He spent $40 billion. It's, it's, you know, it's like chasing that pure Coke in the eighties or something. Anyways, go on. Do that's exactly what it is. Uh, number two, I wanted to say that, I mean, the serious thing is, and I'm sure what's going to be great about this show is just like when, you know, you're listening to fucking two bears, one cave and they're like, what's that movie?

And the fans are like at home screaming the movie. Like I know what it is. People are screaming at us. Like what is actually happening? Um, you know, where this became even more problematic is look, man, companies, private companies have the right to choose who uses their platform. Um, where this got even crazier was the fact that there are memos from political administrations pretty much being like, Hey, get this guy, go get this guy, shadow ban this.

And now it's like, okay, well now the government is censoring voices and that's not good. And then the most important thing I was going to say is, uh, uh, Jesse, if you're listening and we're looking for short clips to post, please cut a cow saying, uh, cuckoody, cut, cuck, or whatever, uh, that was, I wish I had the timestamps.

He's cutting as we speak. So I'm going to cut a couple of those. I'm going to cut a couple of those. I'm going to cut a couple of those. I'm going to cut a couple of those. I'm going to cut a couple of those. I'm going to cut a couple of those.

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I'm going to cut a couple of those. I'm going to cut a couple of those. I'm going to cut a couple of those. I'm going to cut a couple of those. I'm going to cut a couple of those. I'm going to cut a couple of those. I'm going to cut a couple of those.

I'm going to cut a couple of those. I'm going to cut a couple of those. I'm going to cut a couple of those. I'm going to cut a couple of those. I'm going to cut a couple of those. I'm going to cut a couple of those. I'm going to cut a couple of those.

I'm going to cut a couple of those. I'm going to cut a couple of those. I'm going to cut a couple of those. I'm going to cut a couple of those. I'm going to cut a couple of those. I'm going to cut a couple of those. I'm going to cut a couple of those.

I'm going to cut a couple of those. I'm going to cut a couple of those. I'm going to cut a couple of those. I'm going to cut a couple of those. I'm going to cut a couple of those. I'm going to cut a couple of those. I'm going to cut a couple of those.

I'm going to cut a couple of those. I'm going to cut a couple of those. I'm going to cut a couple of those. I'm going to cut a couple of those. I'm going to cut a couple of those. I'm going to cut a couple of those. I'm going to cut a couple of those.

I'm going to cut a couple of those. I'm going to cut a couple of those. I'm going to cut a couple of those. I'm going to cut a couple of those. I'm going to cut a couple of those. I'm going to cut a couple of those. I'm going to cut a couple of those.

I'm going to cut a couple of those. I'm going to cut a couple of those. I'm going to cut a couple of those. I'm going to cut a couple of those. I'm going to cut a couple of those. I'm going to cut a couple of those. I'm going to cut a couple of those.

I'm going to cut a couple of those. I'm going to cut a couple of those. I'm going to cut a couple of those. I'm going to cut a couple of those. I'm going to cut a couple of those. I'm going to cut a couple of those. I'm going to cut a couple of those.

I'm going to cut a couple of those. I'm going to cut a couple of those. I'm going to cut a couple of those.