>> Putting a mask on yourself is more to prevent you from infecting someone else. And if everybody does that, we're each protecting each other because the data is it's more efficient to prevent transmitting to others than it is to prevent transmission to yourself. >> Even though the benefits of wearing a mask apparently aren't enough to compel Donald Trump to wear one, the CDC is now recommending people wear cloth masks while out in public to help curb the spread of COVID-19.

Joining me now is Dr. Ashish Jha, Director of the Harvard Global Health Institute and Jeremy Howard, founder of Masks for All. Thank you all for being here. Dr. Jha, I'm gonna start with you first, to help stop coronavirus, everyone should be wearing face masks. I've got to tell you Jeremy's piece, so I won't give you that piece.

But can you explain the difference in thinking? Because the original thinking was masks were more important for somebody who's already sick to prevent other people from getting sick, but now the thinking has changed, how so? >> Yeah, so we have more and more evidence that we've known actually for a while that asymptomatic people, people who have no symptoms at all, can spread the disease.

But that data has now really become crystal clear, I would say over the last month or so. And therefore, when you're out in public, you're at a grocery store, you may be infected, you may be spreading the disease, but have no symptoms at all, and becomes really important that you put on that mask.

Because as Dr. Fauci said, we're all gonna get through this together, and if we protect each other by wearing masks, it's gonna make a big difference. >> Yeah, and now I will read the piece that Jeremy, you wrote. You wrote every country with enforced mask usage shows dramatically lower death rates compared to countries not using masks widely.

Our affiliate in Miami, my former place of work, has noted that Miami Beach, the city of Miami Beach has ordered employees and customers in stores to wear masks and facial coverings as of Friday. Talk about your initiative to make sure because there's one thing to say wear masks, the second thing is how do you get them?

>> Yeah, so there's a couple of important things to know here. So as the doctor mentioned, the science is now clear, a nature article that came out just showed that 100% of the time, the coronavirus was blocked by a simple cloth cover. So you don't need a fancy N95 respirator, leave them for the hospitals where they're doing dangerous procedures.

You just gotta cover your mouth. If you don't do so, you're protecting those, you're putting at risk those around you. And if you go out and see somebody else not wearing a mask, they're putting you at risk. This disease is a silent assassin. So the closest we have right now to a kind of imperfect vaccine is to cover up your face.

The advisor on this to the WHO says this might be even more important than distancing, but that's how important this is. So it's not enough for you to do it. You need everybody in your community to do it. And that's why we need enforcement on this. If we hit a magic number, the number is 80%.

If 80% comply, modeling suggests we can actually kill this virus off. >> And Dr. Shaw, I wanna play you what Donald Trump had to say about this idea of wearing masks. And this is despite the fact that the CDC now contradicts him. Here he is on Friday. >> The CDC is advising the use of non-medical cloth face covering as an additional voluntary public health measures.

You can do it, you don't have to do it. I'm choosing not to do it, but some people may wanna do it and that's okay. Somehow sitting in the Oval Office beyond that beautiful resolute desk. The great resolute desk, I think wearing a face mask as I greet presidents, prime ministers, dictators, kings, queens, I don't know, somehow.

I don't see it for myself. >> Dr. Shaw, he says you can do it, you don't have to do it. He's worried about the aesthetics of meeting. I'm not sure why he'd be meeting with prime ministers and kings and queens. In his office, but he thinks the aesthetics of him wearing a mask wouldn't be good for himself.

Your thoughts on his thoughts, Dr. Shaw. >> Yeah, so a principal element of leadership is modeling, modeling good behavior. And there is very clear evidence that we should be wearing masks when we're out in public. By the way, it is not a substitute for distancing. It alone isn't good enough, but it is a really important component of doing what is right for our society.

And if it's good thing for all of us to be doing, then the president should be modeling that behavior. That in my mind is fundamental to good leadership. >> And very quickly to stay with you, here's Deborah Birx who is one of his experts and she's saying this is her solution is don't go to the store, take a listen.

>> The next two weeks are extraordinarily important. And that's why I think you've heard from Dr. Fauci, from myself, from the president and the vice president, that this is the moment to do everything that you can on the presidential guidelines. This is the moment to not be going to the grocery store, not going to the pharmacy, but doing everything you can to keep your family and your friends safe.

And that means everybody doing the six feet distancing washing your hands. >> Dr. Shaw, this again is confusing because we don't know how long I'm right now in the DC area. We don't know how long people are gonna have to be holed up. It seems to me that going to the grocery store and stocking up and going to the pharmacy, or at least ordering your meds if you need them for the next couple of weeks, seems to be exactly what you should be doing.

Particularly if you're wearing a mask is, I don't understand the conflict between that and what she said to you. >> Yeah, so what Dr. Birx is saying, and it's true, is that we really are in a crunch time. The next two weeks in many parts of the country are gonna be the peak time for the disease.

And so if you can limit, so if you have to go to the grocery store, you gotta go to the grocery store. But if you can avoid it or pack all your purchases to one trip, wear a mask, wash your hands. Really use the next two weeks to kind of tamp down on activity.

It's gonna be very, very important. So obviously, if you need your medicines, get your medicines. If you need food, get your food. But instead of making four trips to the grocery store, make one and really try to limit your activity for the next couple of weeks. Cuz those are probably the two, three most important weeks in terms of the peak of the infection in large parts of the country.

>> Yeah, and Jeremy, so please explain your initiative, Masks for All. Tell us what is the purpose of it and how do people get involved. >> Okay, so the magic word to write down, I hope everybody's ready, is masks for all. That's the number for masks for all. How this magic word works.

Go to masksforall.co. You see it on the screen there and you'll see how to make your own mask so that you don't take a mask away from hospitals that need the special ones. Text that word to 50409 and that will send a message to your legislators and your governor demanding mask for all executive orders.

Here's why you need them. If you go to a shop and somebody there is not wearing a mask, they could kill you. We've already seen this on public transport, the bus driver who died and somebody on his bus coughed without wearing a mask, but it's not just coughing, it's talking.

We actually know talking is the main way this thing spreads. So we need to make sure if you're gonna be safe in your community, go to your shop and demand that they have a no mask, no service policy. That's gonna keep you safe. Otherwise, you go in that shop, person behind you not wearing a mask, they could kill you, right?

This is a public health issue. This is not a personal responsibility thing. If we get 80% of people wearing a mask, it could save your life. It could save the economy. It could put us back on track. And it apparently is not that difficult to make them. You can sort of make your own, right?

I mean, some people are even doing initiatives where they're just making them. Yeah, so it's so easy, even a data scientist can do it. I'm a data scientist. I made my own mask. I will admit it looks kind of rather rubbish, but my mother-in-law put pity on me and made this one for me.

What we need, we don't need, any cover is fine. The scarf, a bandana, actually research that's about to come out shows that any kind of cover stops 99% of droplets. But here's a good one based on research in Cambridge University in Chinese scientists, two layers of cotton. And then in the middle is a special magic material that Chinese scientists have discovered is almost identical to surgical mask material.

It's called a paper towel. So you just need two layers of cotton with a paper towel in the middle. And actually, the surgeon general has a demonstration of how to make one with a simple handkerchief. If you pop a paper towel in the middle, you've got your ideal mask ready to go.

>> All right, that is a very good advice. Thank you very much, Dr. Ashish Jha. Thank you very much. And Jeremy Howard, thank you very much as well. Y'all be safe, thank you. And up next, reckless information is putting American lives at risk. New York Attorney General Letitia James is here to weigh in.