Confidence is a term we're all familiar with, but most of us have trouble building it or using it. Today, we have Dr. Aziz Gazipura, one of the world's leading confidence experts, to talk about how you can cultivate and grow confidence as a way to harness your true potential. So if you want to learn how to use confidence to become successful and live a happier life, you'll definitely want to keep watching.

And if you want to support the channel, please give us a thumbs up and subscribe. All right, let's get into it. (upbeat music) (audience cheering) Aziz, thanks for being here. - I'm glad to be here, thank you, Chris. - I think most of us know what confidence is or what it feels like, but I think it'd be good to start this conversation off by just having you define it for us.

- Yeah, my favorite definition is going straight to the root in Latin, which is confides, which means with faith, which is pretty broad, with faith, but it's like faith in what? Well, you can have self-confidence. I believe in myself. That would be called, they call that self-efficacy in psychology, right?

I believe I'm effective. I believe I can do that. If you've been a mechanic for a bunch of years, you have self-confidence that you can fix a car. But then there's also social confidence. Are you able to talk to people? Are you able to connect with them? And then we can also have confidence in our careers, in our romantic life, but in any area of your life, do you have faith in yourself?

Do you have faith in possibly something beyond you in the future, in what you can create? But that's really at its root, what it is. It's really just a belief in you or in something going the way that you think you can create it. - What do you think most people are getting wrong when they think about their own confidence?

- I think at its root, most people don't think that it's an inside job. Their confidence is very contextual. It's very based upon the circumstances of their life. So they make money, the job goes well, the deal goes through, they feel more confident. The person likes you. You get the positive response on social media or someone's like, "I think your work is great." Or someone wants to go on a date with you.

And you're like, "Yeah, yeah." And your confidence goes up. And then rejection, setback, bad day, challenge, confidence goes down. And most people are kind of riding that current up and down, up and down. And they fail to realize that confidence is actually an inside job. And it's not, sure, we're affected by circumstances, but it doesn't have to be a buoy on the surface of the water.

You can actually choose and practice tools and habits to sustain higher confidence, more unconditional confidence that doesn't require your circumstances to be in your favor. 'Cause, I mean, how often are they always in our favor? It's like, we don't have control over that. - Yeah, I mean, you've said you can cultivate, nurture, and grow these habits.

How do we do that? - Ah, well, you gotta first know what the habits are, right? What are the habits of confidence? And there's a handful of them that are gonna be like the 80/20, the ones that get you the biggest bang for your buck. And a lot of people might have heard of a few of them, but are we practicing them?

And do we really know how to do them? And so I'm gonna distill it down just to two, 'cause 10 is too many, just two. You do these, it's gonna change the lion's share of your confidence. One is inside of what you do, and one is what you practice in the world.

So on the inside, I call it being on your own side, on my own side. And that's a phrase that is basically, how do you treat yourself, and how do you relate to yourself? So we all have a relationship with ourselves, as well as with your family, your friends, your spouse, your kids, whatever.

But then there's you and you. And you're with you 24/7. And if you look inside of most people's heads, if you were to kind of peel it back and observe, most people, even successful people, have a negative or toxic relationship with themselves. If you were to observe two humans, like at a restaurant talking to each other, the way that you talk to yourself, you'd probably be like disturbed.

You'd be like, do I have to sit here? Can I move tables? Right, it's critical, it's negative, it's predicting the worst, it's harping on things, it's nitpicking. And this isn't just horribly low confidence people. And most people are just kind of trying to push through that and ignore it, but it's like a dead weight on your confidence.

So you have to change your relationship with yourself, and we can talk more about how to do that. That's the first habit, to be on your own side, to treat yourself like someone you actually love, and to learn how to optimize the way you coach yourself. Most people are very bad at that.

And then the second side is, you have to consistently build the muscle of confidence, which is a byproduct of bold action. So if you take bold action in the world, you will, just like if you lift weights and push it to the edge, you will grow muscle. And it's the same thing with confidence.

If you do what scares you, then the byproduct of that is confidence. And if you combine those two, and you practice those regularly, you can have high sustained confidence through any season. - It's funny how so many of these big things in life seem to be able to be distilled into two things.

We had a conversation with Vanessa Van Edwards on Charisma, and she's like, "It's a balance of competence and," oh man, I just totally spaced it, "Warmth and competence." It's a balance between warmth and competence. And it's like, if you can master those two things and the balance between them.

So I wanna dig into this, right? Why is this not so obvious? Like why are we all walking around, beating ourselves up and not taking bold actions? Is it that people don't know that that's what you need to do and that's your life's work? Or is it that it's actually really hard and there are easier ways to do it?

Or maybe it's both. - That's a great question. I think a lot of people, if you intellectually ask them, are those things good to do? They'd be like, "Oh yeah, just like eating my vegetables "and working out every day and spending time slowing down, "unplugging from my phone and connecting with my spouse.

"Yeah, that's all, it's great." But are we doing all those things, right? And the reason we don't, just like we don't do all those other healthy habits, well, maybe some people do, but the reason it's a challenge to do something that sounds very simple is because there's an emotional driver underneath the surface.

And each one has a payoff. The bold, I start with the bold action. There's a huge set of payoffs for not taking bold action. And one of the payoffs is we get to avoid the thing that everyone by default is trying to avoid in life, which is pain. And so, when we take a bold action, we're gonna experience a variety of forms of pain.

Some of it's just discomfort. To wake up, to focus, to take the action, to consistently follow up, there's a discomfort to that. And then there's an emotional discomfort of what if they don't like my show? What if someone doesn't agree with me? What if someone criticizes? What if my work's not good enough?

What if I'm rejected? It all comes down to that, disapproved of, rejected. And most people are so afraid of that and even unconsciously avoiding that, that they push the action to later. They make it way smaller, they delay it, they hesitate, and they don't even necessarily know that that's what we're doing, right?

It's just like, no, I'm busy, no, this. But underneath, I'm scared. And then we got our, you know, we don't wanna, we wanna look macho. We don't wanna say we're scared, so we say I'm stressed and I'm too busy. So that's the payoff for the bold action. You might say, what is the payoff for treating yourself bad?

I mean, obviously that's terrible. Well, I would say that it actually serves the same master. So when I tell myself it's gonna fail, I'm not good, I didn't do that right, that's creating this, it's almost like a fog, an amnesia. I kind of forget my strengths. I'm sure you've done that, I've done that.

It's like two in the morning and the way you're seeing yourself is like this helpless, incompetent person. You're like, wait a minute, that's weird. Why am I even believing this? Because the more we believe that, we stay in this kind of shell. It's like a protective walls of this negative identity.

I'm a nobody, who am I? And that nobody who's nothing is even further from taking that bold action. And all of this is under the umbrella of what I call your safety police, which is like a mechanism in your psychology, you could think of it. That is, its purpose is single fold.

It is to keep you safe. And the safety police is like a survival mechanism inside that's run amok. It's just too high, the dial is set too high. And so safety means no pain, no rejection, no threat, no danger, no risk. And so you tell yourself you're a nobody and you avoid the action and you get to stay in that bubble, which feels safer in the moment.

Of course, meanwhile, your life is passing you by. - So it seems like both of those are a little bit like this voice in your head, this inner critic that is kind of controlling you. Is that a fair assumption? - Yes, yeah, the inner critic, you could think of it as like the mouthpiece of the safety police.

It's the one who's kind of narrating. And the crazy thing is like, why do people believe it? It's almost like, because it's familiar and also because it has proximity. You know, it's coming from in your head. And so it's like, it's closer than your closest friend. And so like, where is that?

Okay, I guess that's true. And I'll often do that with clients. I'm like, where is that voice coming from? And they're like, what do you mean? Like, it's from my childhood. Like, no, no, no, no, no, no, right now. How are you even hearing that thing? And then it's like a confusing mindfulness question.

I'm like, I don't know, right? But it's close. And all of a sudden we assume because it's close and we've heard it a lot, that it's true. But if you pay attention, this is probably one of the tools I help clients break free with, is if you pay attention to its track record of predictions, it's really bad.

It's really bad. Oh, you're gonna fail at that meeting. No one's gonna buy the thing. And you go there and it goes okay, and people buy the thing. And the person would never go out with you. And then the person goes out with you, right? Maybe not that one, but the next one.

And if you look at its track record, it's terrible. But then still the very next day, think about that if you had like a financial advisor and they were just, they couldn't beat the market. They were wrong all the time. And you just keep going back to them. And you're like, well, what do you think this time?

And they're just so certain that you keep going to it. And I think that's how we are with the inner critic. - So what do we do with both of these areas and what are the tactics? - A lot of people, when they discover this, they're like, okay, how do I kill the critic, right?

It's the enemy, slay the demon. And I don't think it works that way. You can think of like the parts of our psychology as that old show Survivor. I don't know if it's still running. You can't vote them off the island. You can't get rid of them, right? They actually are a part in there.

The problem is not the survivor and the safety police. The problem is the dial, the setting is too high. You do need some survival skills. That prevents you from jumping off the 30 foot building and breaking your legs, right? It's like you have a sense of risk and all that.

The issue is that we need to turn the dial down. And so, the first thing that people have to do is they have to even know this conversation that we're having exists and say, wait a minute, it's not just me, Aziz, or you, Chris. There's a lot of Aziz's in there.

There's a lot of parts inside. And one of the parts is this inner critic. So the first thing I do with people is, can you know when your critic is talking? Do you know when it's you thinking versus the critic? Now, we don't have to get crazy, just philosophical, like what is me, right?

But, you know, are you seeing clearly? Are you having a distorted view of yourself as incapable and unlovable? You'll start to hear the critic and get better at it because you'll know, it's languages and extremes. It's gonna go awful. Everyone's gonna think you're terrible. It magnifies. It's just like a fun house distorted mirror.

So you gotta get, one, is identify the critic and just get good at it. So with clients, I'll have them do an awareness exercise, usually for like a week or two, where they're just noting it, tracking it. I'll have them name it too. And some people just call it the critic.

Some people come up with these like pretty funny, creative, silly names just to break the pattern a little bit. So you start to name it. Then the biggest technique, you could call it tool, is not some hack to just know what to say. It actually is deeper than that.

You have to make what I call the decision of a lifetime. So I have a book called "On My Own Side," which is guiding people through this. And so you're aware of this critic. And they're like, yeah, yeah, it's all the time. I can name it. I can see it now.

Okay, great. Take a moment and really pay attention to what's happening here. Like really observe it for a while. 'Cause when you do, hopefully there's some part inside of you. It's like when you watch a movie or I mean, maybe this has happened in your life. You're watching someone be almost in an abusive relationship.

And if you're watching a movie and what's that one with Leonardo DiCaprio and Robert De Niro from way back in the day, "This Boy's Life," some just terrible, abusive stepfather. When you're watching that movie and you're identifying with the young character, every part of your body wants that young son or character to like stand up to that tyrant and say like, this is effed up.

Like I'm leaving your house, I'm out, I'm done. And basically people have to have that moment inside of themselves. Because what happens is like, okay, the critic's beating them up and they're believing it. And they're like, okay, I caught it. Now what do I do? But the energy is not there.

You need to have a revolution inside. You need to usurp the power of the critic and take control of your inner self and be the captain of your ship, as I call it. And that means like the critic is the parent kicking you around. You need to become the parent.

So it's a decision and the decision comes from like reaching a threshold moment of really observing, like this is effed up. I can't, like what am I doing to myself? And you gotta have this sense of almost outrage or disgust or revulsion or something. You say, all right, that's it.

I'm gonna take control here. Because otherwise, before that decision, it always goes like this. And I see this all the time. People go to cognitive therapy. They teach them how to deal with their negative thoughts, which is their critic. And they'll write out the critical thoughts. You're a loser and nobody likes you.

And they're like, okay, what do I do? The therapist is like, challenge the thought. And they're like, okay, I'm good. And many people do like me. Is that right? And it's got no power because they're still, they're framed, they're still living within the reality created by their critic. They still see themselves that way.

And so we have to shatter that and be willing to see what's really true. And I could go deeper and more granular, but I'll pause. - Yeah, so I'm curious how applicable this is to everyone or is this kind of for people who found themselves so deep that they have no confidence?

Because I imagine there's some people listening that don't necessarily feel like they don't have confidence. They're willing to go to a meeting and feel like they're gonna do a great job, but it could probably level up as well. So I'm curious if you address some of the tactics you said, it's like, you make me feel like, wow, like I'm not even sure I'm at that point yet.

However, I have no doubt that there is something to be learned for everyone. So where does this, how does this calibrate for people? - This doesn't have to mean that you're impaired to the point where you can't go into that meeting, but a lot of people will go into the meeting and what are they, the morning of the meeting, they're short with their spouse.

They're stressed out. Like I got that meeting. Maybe they had a little trouble. You know, maybe they're confident. But I think if you look at a lot of people, there's some fear underneath. And the fear is like, this has to go good or else. I have to make this presentation.

And they might say, I'm gonna crush it. I'm gonna just nail it. Maybe. Now that's great. Then you could observe, what are you doing? You probably are having, you're probably reinforcing an identity, how you see yourself of capability. I got this, I can do this. And you know what that is?

Their critic has been swapped out with what I would call an optimal self-coach. And that's a process that you can observe. So even if your critic's not terrible, you gotta start listening to it and say, well, what? You could ask this question before a meeting. Am I nervous? What am I telling myself?

Who's, this is a great, powerful question. Who's coaching me in my head right now? And then you could say, well, what would an optimal coach say? And you could think back if you've ever had a sports coach when you were young or a life coach as you got older or someone who was a mentor or a guide who actually fulfilled that role for you.

And like, well, what would they say? How would they perceive this? How, what would they, what would I think? And you can start to tap into that and draw on that before the meeting. Usually with people with high confidence are kind of doing this unconsciously. But I would say that there's still often a layer of fear underneath.

And that fear is some level of, if this doesn't go well, then dot, dot, dot. And I think true, like the next level, if you wanna talk about extraordinary confidence, right? It's the people that are willing to face that dot, dot, dot. And to go into any scenario of life, even the stuff that we would never want to occur.

And to not say, oh, great, I hope that happens. But to say, you know what? If that happens, I'll be okay too. I know I can handle anything. That's when you get to a certain level of confidence where you're able to kind of move through life without that roller coaster of fear and up and down.

- So I wanna double click a little, 'cause what I heard was, okay, everyone seems to, whether you have no confidence or a lot of it, it sounds like you could have more and the impact on your life of having more would be great. So you just need to confront and stand up to this inner critic.

Are there more kind of habits to build or types of coaching to kind of keep it going? 'Cause it seems like it'd be easy one morning to be like, you know what? Forget it, this is gonna be great. But that doesn't mean that it's gonna last forever. - Yes, okay, so here's a simple one.

You wanna think about, I think it's helpful when you think about what habits to do, is like, what's the outcome? What are we trying to do? And you say, well, I'm trying to build my confidence. Yes, but what you're really trying to do to have high confidence is you have a, when you, when your identity is expanded enough for whatever it is you're trying to do, you don't need to like pep talk yourself.

So I'm sure there's things that you can do. I don't know, there's something in your life where you feel like it's not, you don't think about it as confidence 'cause you've just done it so many times that it's no big deal. Is there anything in your life like a hobby or a work task or anything?

I know you do a lot of travel. So for some people, travel is overwhelming. Like, oh my God, where would I even go? I don't know if that even feels that way to you at this point. Yeah, it's funny. It's like, I don't stress out about, we're taking this trip we talked about right before we started in a couple of weeks and we have no idea where we're going.

And I know a lot of people will be very overwhelmed. It's like, we're going on a trip for a week. In two weeks, we have no idea what we're doing. And I'm like, no, I just know that we're gonna be able to find a great trip. It's just not, it doesn't even bother me.

My wife's like, well, yeah, but I might need to buy some clothes if it's gonna be cold or warm. So it'd be good to know, you know, on more than a day's notice. But for me, I'm like, yeah, we got, I have warm clothes, I have cold clothes. I'm pretty confident we'll have a good trip.

Yes, okay. So you can hear there's like a relaxed sense of certainty around that. And a lot of people wouldn't have that. I don't travel. I used to travel a lot when I was younger. I haven't traveled that much in the last like, I don't know, seven, eight years.

And so for me, it'd just be like, I don't know if I'd be like overstressed about it, but it would be kind of like more than you, right? 'Cause there's something different there. So what's the differentiating factor there? It's that you're, there's a level of, my sense is you've probably traveled a lot.

You do a show that involves some travel, right? So you've expanded your identity. So Chris includes travel, got it. How did you expand the identity to include that? You weren't born that way. Did you grow up with world traveler parents? - A little bit, yeah. I mean, I wouldn't say that, definitely travel.

My grandparents traveled a lot. My parents traveled, we went places, so yes. - So there you go. So you had this exposure and practice and it becomes normal would maybe be the best way. It's familiar and normal for you to do that kind of thing. So now we're gonna go on a trip in a couple of weeks, no big deal.

That's like someone who, you know, I had a buddy when I was young who was like one of those straight out of a movie hacker nerd kids. And this was when the internet, this was in like '97 or something, '95. So, you know, everything was simpler in a way, like the computer systems, the internet, and he could just like, you know, furiously type and like literally at the school library be like in the administrator section of the school.

I'm like, what are you doing, right? Because he grew up on computers. He just knew how to do that stuff. So what does all this have to do with, you know, confidence at work in our lives and that sort of thing is that we need to expand our identity so that we see ourselves as like, this is no big deal.

This is normal for me. Otherwise it's always a, oh my God, am I gonna pull this off? I don't know, that whole, I don't know. That's a reflection that you don't see as a part of your normal identity yet. So we want to expand our identity. So the habits have to be expanding our identity to include that.

So one thing we can do is to do the thing, right? Like start getting exposure to it. And that sounds so simple, but if we're not great at it yet, or it causes stress for us, we slow the process down. We're like, I'll get to that next month. I'll do it once in a while.

Like, no, the biggest change is gonna go on offense, I like to call it. So let's say you do okay at work meetings, but you want to just like own the room. You want to be like a powerful force of leadership and speaking up and authority. So then you say, okay, I'm gonna have a commitment.

Like every single meeting, I'm gonna intentionally speak up and I'm gonna intentionally steer at once. I'm gonna intentionally ask a question. And so you start to build that. That's the action side. Now the habit that really strengthens that, and it serves multiple purposes. It neutralizes the critic and it builds your optimal coach.

And this one is right after the meeting is done, force yourself, don't just do it in your head, force yourself to do it on a note file on your phone or on a sheet of paper if you want to do it old school, where you write down three wins from the meeting right afterwards.

What are three things that you did that went well? You might say, no, no, I don't need to do that. I know it was fine, it went great. No, no, no, this is gonna really like encode it into your identity. So you say, well, I spoke up there, I did this.

And it doesn't matter what you write down. It matters that you're training your brain to say, hey, when I go into these situations, I'm competent. Remember you were talking about Vanessa Van Edwards, competence and warmth, right? So yes, you say, I know I'm competent. Not all of you knows that all of the time.

So what this is doing is like linking your brain. So I do this and I'll do this with clients. Well, let's say if you write down three things like that a day, and within like two to three weeks, there's a man I worked with who is, he was already very successful.

He ran multiple companies, but he basically felt like he wasn't never successful enough. And so he started to do this because in his mind, at the end of the day, he cataloged all the things he didn't do well enough, even though he was successfully running three companies. And so with this practice, he started to simply write down three things at the end of each day that he did well.

And within three weeks, he's like, something, a big shift happened. I was like, what? He's like, well, I was talking with my wife and in an offhand manner, I referred to myself as successful. And for him, this guy who runs three companies, he's like multi-millionaire. For him, the moment that he knew he was a success was when he casually told his wife something and implying he was successful.

So that's the power I think of really upgrading our identity. - And is that making a point to speak up in a meeting or take charge, is that the bold side of the two habits you wanted to build or is that something different? - Yeah, that would be an example.

For a number of people, that might be a challenge. And whatever the bold action is, how do you know what it is? It's whatever makes you uncomfortable or scares you a lot. Generally, if it freaks you out, you probably have to work up to it. Think of it as like weight training.

You're not gonna just bench press 300 pounds if you can't bench press 150. So practice and repetition of the smaller amounts. But yes, that would be an example of bold action. - Yeah, I was talking to, we went to a birthday party for a three-year-old this weekend and one of the parents said, "Oh, have you ever traveled with your kids?" And I was like, "Yeah, we went to London and Paris." And they're like, "Whoa, we could never do that." And I was like, "Okay, then why don't you go for a weekend?" I was just trying to tell them they're not gonna ever feel like they could travel with their kids as much as they want until they just do it.

So I assume that is a little bit of what you have to do and you don't have to go and take an international trip right away, but maybe you just go somewhere for a night, go somewhere for a weekend. - 100%, it's a gradual exposure. It's a 10-pound weight and you work your way up to 20, 30, and so forth.

And most people will never, in their mind, it's like the 100-pound weight or nothing. I wanna go international. We'll do it when they're teenagers. And then it's like, but what about the overnight? Ah, that's not enough. Ah, I don't know. And we all do this. The small stuff is like, nah, nah, nah.

But really, it's the only way to get that confidence. - And when it comes to the inner critic, can you talk to me about what the difference is between kind of planning for the worst and feeling like the worst is gonna happen? I think sometimes my wife and I have these debates where I'm like, everything's gonna be great.

And she's like, well, what if this happens? What if this happens? And I don't actually think she's necessarily saying it's going to happen. She's just like, well, we should be prepared because if something does go wrong, we wanna make sure that we have a contingency, a plan, enough diapers, enough extra snacks.

And I'm like, well, if the kids are hungry, we'll go find a store and buy some stuff and it'll be okay. And I think we both realize that we balance each other out well, 'cause I'm like, nothing's gonna go wrong. Everything's gonna be perfect. And I wouldn't say she says everything's gonna go wrong.

She just wants to make sure we're prepared if it does. You know, not making this about my wife per se, but is there something, is that a self-critic or is that a preparedness or is there a blurry line between the two? - That's a great question. Also, a similar dynamic between me and my wife.

I don't know if that's like roles or personality styles or, you know, male-female energy, but it's definitely like, what do we need? Like, okay, whatever, let's just grab, let's go. We've definitely been on hikes with my boys where we ran out of water and stuff. And I'm like, well, we survived.

But yes, so I think you're highlighting a great point here. There is, it all comes back to risk and our willingness to take risk. And each person has a different level of risk tolerance. And if someone's risk tolerance is a little lower, it doesn't mean it's bad. It might mean they're prepared, right?

You know, I'm not gonna take the risk of bringing nothing. Let's bring these three things so that we have some supplies. There's a downside to that. You gotta think of the things, you gotta carry them around, right? Like, so we all find our balance there. And in day-to-day life, as you're describing, you know, probably not too significant of an impact.

I'd say the problem can come in when people start becoming less willing or even unwilling to tolerate risk. That would be your wife saying, I can't go until I have three backpacks, diapers, foods, disaster supplies. You know, it starts to become really extreme. I'd say, well, that's over the top.

But people do that in their lives. I'm not gonna start my business until I have this lined up and I've achieved that. And I have X amount of money in the bank and this and that, and the kids are older. And now the business has never started. I'm not gonna have children until I got A and B and C and D all lined up.

And then they don't have children, right? So people will avoid significant positive risks in their lives because they are unwilling to tolerate. And that's the key thing, to lean into the risk, we have to be able to tolerate uncertainty, the I don't know what's gonna happen. And the boogeyman that stops us from doing that is the mind says, okay, well, we don't know.

Could be awesome, could be fun, could be spontaneous. It could be death. It could be the terrible thing, right? And because of the human prediction machine that is our brain, it can, within a quarter of a second, imagine, see, and even feel like the death of your child or a financial ruin, you know, which is pretty intense.

You're sitting there eating your cereal and all of a sudden you go, ah, financial ruin, right? Like that's a significant emotional impact. And so what do you do with that? And people that have anxiety, you know, if we get caught into anxiety or we're catastrophizing, we can really live in that place and start to imagine that it's gonna happen.

And the key there is to take a step back. I would say start with like your nervous system. Are you ramped up? Are you breathing really rapidly? Are you shoveling food, junk food in your face? Like take a moment, as simple as it might sound, take like three breaths where you slowly breathe in and count to where you're breathing out longer than you're breathing in.

And then ask yourself, is this like, what kind of risk am I afraid of? What's the line here? And usually we can see like there's a certain line that makes sense. And then, but what if, but what if, what if, and then at some point we have to be willing to go into the what if and say, you know what?

The odds are very, very low that would happen. But if that would happen, let's face that. And I'm not saying you're really gonna have a kid die or something, but I mean like in that moment, you emotionally face it 'cause the fear feeds on avoidance and flight. And if you turn to face it and you face the fear for just a moment, what you'll notice is that it gets really intense, but if you just let it rip through you, it will, without needing to do anything, the moment will pass, the storm will pass, and you're okay to take the step forward.

The problem most people make is they're like, but what if it leads to that? And then they just stop. It's like getting to the edge of the cliff and not even looking down. And what you need to do is become really mindful at the edge and say, okay, what it is is we're at the edge and if you look at every catastrophic thought, it's all about loss, pain, and survival stuff.

Always what it is. And underneath what it is is we all know that this is impermanent. Like none of this stuff is, we don't have control. We don't really know what's gonna happen. The people that we love, it's extraordinary and our hearts are bonded, but something could happen to anyone.

You know, our lifestyles, everything is in flux and change. And it might be steady for decades and it might change. And we know that, and so what we need to do when we're facing our catastrophic thoughts is we're facing impermanence. And we need to look it in the face and there's a part inside that's like, the problem is not that things are gonna change or that something, quote, bad could happen.

The problem is that you are fighting it and bracing against it and unwilling. You're saying, no, I do not sign that contract with life. I will not accept that something unpleasant could happen to me. And you clench everything inside. You get anxious and it doesn't do anything. It's not like the universe is like, oh, he's really tight in his bowels.

Let's like give him what he wants. So the only thing to do, the only sanity is to practice having a practice of surrender and letting go and saying, look, if that happens, (exhales) I will face that then. And it's not a verbal thing. It's in your body. It's a physiologically softening and letting go.

- I guess an interesting takeaway for me is confidence doesn't have to be optimism. It sounds like confidence can be acceptance that it might not be the optimal. I think in my mind, it was always, well, I think this is gonna go well so I can be confident going into it.

But you could also be confident going into it and say, it might not go well. I'm just confident that whatever happens, I can deal with. - That's the underpinning of confidence. That's like the, because the other one, the other one's not bad. The other one, you could think of it as optimism or positive anticipation.

And that will tilt the scales in your favor, right? If you go into a social interaction being like, people are gonna like me, this is gonna be great. We're gonna have fun. Like it's, you tilt it in your favor versus going in like, this is gonna suck. I don't even like people already, right?

Of course, that's gonna tilt it the other way. Now you can go and be like, oh, this is gonna be fun. You can say you're meeting a friend of a friend at this party and oh, we're gonna connect. I've been wanting to meet this person for so long. You know, it's gonna tilt it in your favor.

And still though, you get there and the person's standoffish or, right? You don't have control. So we have to say, look, it's probably gonna go well. I am capable of connect. I can talk to anybody, right? That's the identity piece. That sets you up for positive anticipation. But then you remove the background fear of like, but what if it doesn't?

It's like, well, I'll be okay. And that is the sentence that I think captures the most unconditional confidence is either way, I'll be okay. - Okay. So I'm gonna try to do a quick recap. There's these two big habits and one of them is that you wanna be on your own side and you just gotta stand up to the self-critic.

And the other is that you need to put yourself out there and take some bold actions. Any other kind of bold discomfort practice that people can do? Things that they could exercises? - Yeah. My favorite one is a visceral one and it's not with the mind at all. And it's a cold plunge.

And if you don't have a cold plunge, you can do a cold shower. And it's, you know, that's, but maybe that's come up on your show a lot. I don't know if it's, it's a big hack, but it's from a psychological perspective, there's physiological benefits too. But just facing the every morning before I go into the cold plunge, there is a voice in my head that says, I don't want to.

Like every morning, it doesn't matter how long I've done it. And it's like, it's a practice. I'm going to override this because it's for my benefit. And I'll even sometimes say to myself, it's like, I don't want to. And I'm like, I do want to. Because when I face what's uncomfortable, my life is better for it.

And of course, the cool thing about the cold plunge is that you get an immediate payoff. Like it's not even when you get out. For me, the first one, it's like the four seconds of getting in and submerging my head. And then when I'm sitting in it, it's uncomfortable, but it's like intense and kind of fun and weird.

I think I'm in an altered state almost. - Yeah, the hard part was getting in. - Hard part's getting in. And that's a great metaphor 'cause that's the same thing for whatever it might be. The hardest part of the risk is jumping. It's walking towards those people you don't know and want to create a business connection with, right?

It's calling the person up. It's starting the thing. It's initiating. 'Cause then once you're in it, you're in the moment, right? You're talking to the person. And now it's off to the races. So, I think that's a really powerful practice is the cold plunge. On the physical side, I like to do those as well 'cause I think they're so, they transmit a message that's not just us talking to ourselves.

So, another physical thing for anyone could be there, it is some sort of athletic pursuit where you have a practice of doing something consistently that's uncomfortable even though you don't want to sometimes. Whatever it is for you. I don't care the sport or activity. But I think that and the cold plunge are really foundational things that you might not think be related to your confidence at all.

But they're very much related to the psychology of being able to go into discomfort because going into discomfort equals freedom. - I thought you were gonna bring up asking people to give you money 'cause I've heard you talk about that in the past. - That's so fun. So, oh man, talk about like rejection practice and other things.

Those are on the social side and those are truly liberating as well. - Yeah, so just talk a little bit about that exercise. - Yes, okay. So, this is for fear of rejection and a lot of people might say, "I don't have a fear of rejection." It's like, okay, try these exercises and see if that's true or not.

So, here's a great one is you basically, you walk up to someone and you ask a question that you are basically 100% certain you're gonna get a no for. And one of the simplest ones for that is can I have $100? Or whatever the currency of your choice is that's equivalent to a large amount of money.

And you do it in a friendly, warm way. So, that's where it makes it fun, right? It's like you're asking them for what time is it? Or do you know a restaurant? But you're saying, "Hey, can I have $100?" And it confuses people 'cause you're not begging, you're not like, "Oh, poor me." You're just like, "Hey, I have $100." And you get all kinds of fun reactions.

But you'd be surprised, your heart might be pounding before you go do it. Why is your heart pounding? 'Cause you're in fight or flight, why? Because there's break, it could be the rejection. It could also be that you're breaking like a social norm. You're disturbing, this is a whole topic we can dive into it, but I would call the cultural field.

So, there's an invisible field, just like gravity is invisible, but it's affecting us right now. That's why we're staying in our chairs. The cultural field is affecting you right now. Even in this interview, it's affecting us. How I talk, how I use my face, why I'm not, for those who are watching, why am I not going like this?

Like me, I just did it. But it's because the cultural, if you were to do that in a work meeting, right? People would be like, does he have a condition? Like, should we be, you know, is this okay? Right, it's unusual. And so, but social freedom, which is part of confidence is, as long as you're not hurting somebody or being aggressive or something, but you just to be able to free to wear what you want, say what you want, laugh out loud, ask whatever you want of anybody, that requires this kind of bold action of getting rejected.

So asking for $100 is a great one. And I have some fun stories of at my events, people will go out and ask for all kinds of things. And shockingly, they actually end up getting yeses more than you'd think for stuff that would almost certainly seem to be a no.

- I mean, you gotta give a couple examples there. - Okay, so the man, this one, you can see. Someone walks up to someone at a restaurant. Hey, can I have a, they have a chips and guacamole. Can I have one of your chips and dip it in your guacamole?

They say, okay. Yeah, you might say, that's not crazy. Here's another one that I was really surprised by. This was surprising. A man walks up to a woman who's outside at a Mexican restaurant and she's eating a burrito. And he says, excuse me. She says, what? No preamble, excuse me.

Yes, can I have a bite of your burrito? And I mean, like, she's gonna let him eat it? And she's like, okay. And gives him a bite of her burrito. Another one, someone says, hey, can I take your bicycle? The guy's on a bike. Can I take your bike for a spin around the block?

The guy says, yes. We've had people get nos to that stuff. And this is my favorite one. A woman goes up to someone who's got a dog. And she says, hey, can I take your dog for a walk? No preamble. And the woman's like, okay. And then this person who's participating at the event, their goal is to rack up rejection.

She doesn't wanna sit there walking someone's dog. So she's like, actually, I don't want to. She walks away. The person's like, what? So there you go, social freedom. - I like it. Let's talk for a second about social freedom. It's something that until I was kind of reading up on your work, it's not even something I'd heard of.

So what does it mean? And what can it do for your life by having more of it? - Yeah, as far as I know, I haven't heard that term anywhere else. I just came up with it 'cause I was thinking of like, what's the opposite of social anxiety, right?

It was like a social confidence, but yeah, but it's actually, it's like social freedom. So the idea is you're free to be 100% you and do what you want in the world and not be restricted by the cultural field. Obviously you have constraints, there's laws, there's things that don't feel good to your own personal ethics, right?

But most people are in a cage that's much tighter than that. It's not the laws, it's, oh, my mom told me I was bothering people when I was young, so I don't want to bother people. Oh, I learned when I was in junior high that if I look too interested, then I'm desperate.

Okay, I'm going to look cool, right? We have all like hundreds of little conclusions and if then statements of how we should be in order to be good, lovable, worthwhile, attractive, all these things. And so we're operating in this cage that ultimately though, it's not really you. And the kicker is you're actually more attractive, more lovable when you step outside of that cage and you let your natural enthusiastic self, your funny self, your quirky self, your weird self, all the things that make you you that you were connected to when you were like 10 years old, you bring them back in.

And that's something that we actually have to consciously do. And man, I've seen people who are like powerhouses in business. They're so confident and they seem like they have no issues with this. And then to go walk down a street and say hi to 15 or 20 strangers, it makes them nervous.

It kind of freaks them 'cause like, oh, I'm confident in this role as a business person, but the social freedom of I get to be whoever I want around people scares them. And so that's just another place that we wanna practice those two things, right? Changing the way you talk to yourself, being on your own side and doing the bold things that make you uncomfortable so you can free yourself socially.

- So we got social freedom, we've got confidence. Are there other byproducts of kind of, or ways to use these two habits to increase our happiness, our satisfaction in life or anything? - Well, I mean, I don't know if you can officially claim this one on internet marketing, but I have an internal phrase that I say, which is double your confidence, double your income.

And I truly believe, and I've seen this in people, that as you grow in your confidence, if you're willing to take bold action, which means here's some bold actions that a lot of people, it's not just saying hi to a stranger or getting a date or something, it's can you ask?

A bold action is to ask for something, to ask directly, to ask unapologetically. And there are hundreds of examples if you're willing to ask, life can give you what you want. And so I've seen people who renegotiate, who ask for promotions, who renegotiate salaries, who've been at companies for years and have never done that.

And they're kind of maybe waiting for the employer to be like, oh, here you go. And maybe that happens, but often you gotta kind of advocate for it. And all of a sudden they do it and they're expecting how dare you, you ingrateful, horrible person, you're fired or whatever.

And the negotiators are like, yeah. Sometimes it's like, yes, okay, here you go. Other times it's like, well, not now. And then I coach them instead of being like, okay, fine, sorry, sorry. They're like, you know what? Okay, well, can you tell me more about when that might be or what might I do that might warrant that kind of promotion or pay increase, right?

Like being in that direct contact with their employer, with coworkers. Running a business is all about asking people to promote you, to work with you, to buy your products or services. And I can't tell you how many people are not as successful in their own businesses because they're afraid to boldly ask people to buy their stuff through the form of marketing calls to action.

So, and I did, I did all this stuff. So for me, it'd be like, I'm gonna put a lot of free teachings out there. And then maybe if you wanna buy something, you'll just do it, I guess. And I learned I had to actually be able to say, hey, if you're enjoying this and you're benefiting from this, go check out this program.

Here's why you want it, right? So being able to ask boldly. So if you do those things, plus you keep expanding your identity to see yourself as successful and capable, I've seen people change jobs, start businesses, grow businesses, and definitely increase their income from just these two habits as well.

- I got an email the other day that said, hey, I work for this company and we have a client who wants to understand more about the automated investment advisory space. Your background looks like you know, would you be up to do a one hour call? And I do a two minute call with this guy.

He's like, yeah, right now the rate is $300 an hour. And I was like, I was thinking $1,000 an hour. Like, you know, it's one hour, it's not a long-term commitment. It felt like an opportunity to just see what happens. And he's like, I think we could do that.

And I was like, that was more than three X for just a response. - Yeah, double your confidence, triple your income doesn't have the same alliterative flow, but you know, look at that, double your income or more. And that's the crazy thing, right? It's you are bold enough to ask and you could have gotten a no or a negotiation or whatever, but so many people, so many of us, myself included, we just won't ask, why?

Oh, because it's uncomfortable and it's unconscious. Oh, I don't know, I don't know. And it's, but that moment right there is no different than getting into the cold plunge, right? There might be like a, okay, so that's exciting. And then once that happens though, it sets up a cascade where you're like, hey, this is what I do.

People pay me a thousand dollars per hour, which is true. And so now, and you could even say that, right? And this person's like, well, how much do you charge? We were thinking 300. Well, people typically pay me a thousand. So that's what I'd be willing to do. If you want to do some sort of longer term thing, we might be able to negotiate something different, but for a one-off it's a thousand, right?

Now, what is that? That's your identity has expanded. - Yeah, I think that one was hard for me and it took some practice over some time. So we've talked a bunch about kind of the inner critic and the fear. One of the places I face that the most is when I'm trying to make some decision, usually in an area I'm actually probably more confident in.

So it's saving money or it's booking travel. And I have this fear that I could be making a more optimal decision. It could be as silly as, you know, I'm buying groceries online and I'm trying to make sure that I get the best deal of the basket of goods or it's, I'm trying to pick a hotel and I want to get the best hotel.

And this critic is like telling me, oh, well, like maybe if you just do a little bit more research, you'll come to this optimal answer. And it's kind of in the lines of maximizing versus satisficing, but can I use these habits in that situation or is there something about that fear that I need to recognize that I won't make the best choice?

- Well, I think that would be the interesting question to look at is, so maybe that's true. Maybe you could find a hotel that is cheaper or has better bang for your buck based upon whatever things you're looking for. Let's just say that that's true. What is painful, like there's a part of you that's like, no!

But I guess we want to investigate that. Like why is that so unacceptable? Right, and that's the part that we would want to go into and be like, okay, there's some feeling inside. My sense is it's almost like if we don't get the best thing, it's almost like unsafe, like something bad is happening.

Is that what it is for you? - Yeah, I mean, maybe it's the, I could have gotten a better deal/experience, but I think I've heard you even say something along the lines of even the optimal outcome still has some negative possibility. So there is no optimal outcome, I guess, is the real answer.

- Well, you're choosing a circumstance and every circumstance in our life, every hotel, every trip, every date, every day of your life is going to have a mixture of good and bad, pleasure, discomfort, pain. There is 100% no day that's avoidable of that. And if you have the greatest day of your life, it's all orchestrated and all the activities are fun, you'll have challenge with your emotional state.

You'll be like bummed out or anxious for whatever reason, you don't know why, right? So we cannot control it all. And so I think that's helpful 'cause the allure of the maximizing pattern is like, well, if I could just nail the right combo of external factors out there, I'm gonna get the perfect day, the perfect trip, the perfect experience.

And that unconsciously is thinking, perfect means all pleasure, no pain, all good times, no frustrating moments. And when you say, you know what, this amazing hotel is gonna have some great things about it and there's gonna be something at this hotel that I don't like, even if it's the best price, best deal, best everything.

And this one also over here is gonna have some great things and some things that I don't like. So I'm gonna do, I would put a cap on it too. I'm gonna do a couple, I'm gonna do 10 minutes of research to make sure I'm not like going to some total dump, right?

But then look, these things, they're basically gonna give me the same. Every path is gonna be a mixture. And when you see that, when you really get that, all of a sudden the back and forth doesn't have the same urgency because ultimately it's all gonna be a basket of pleasure and pain.

You might say, no, no, no, but if I pick the right one, it'll have a higher percentage of pleasure over pain. And yes, maybe, but you generally don't have the data to know that it's in the future. - Yeah, I almost think it's trying to avoid the pain of making the wrong choice than have the joy of making the right choice.

- Interesting, right? And how do you know it's the wrong choice? - Yeah, I mean, that's probably why it takes so long to make a decision 'cause there's no criteria to know that. - I think the wrong choice would be you're in that future moment and something happens that's unpleasant.

- Yeah. - And you say, ah, you see, I made the wrong choice. And it's this fantasy world where if I chose the other one, I would have nothing unpleasant happen. But then no matter where you go, you have unpleasant stuff happen. And then it's like, I need to decide harder next time.

And so when you really embrace that mixture of stuff, it's so relaxing, it's so relieving, I think, 'cause we're trying to avoid these inevitables of life through... And if you just, all it takes, I think, is just to observe that pattern from start to finish. Okay, I'm maximizing on the hotel thing.

All right, let me just pick one. And this is where bold action comes in. So for the maximizing habit, the bold action is to set a cap and decide within whatever the decision is a reasonable amount of time. So a trip or something like that, pretty quick, you know?

It could be deciding on where we wanna go from just one conversation, one feeling. Okay, let's do this, right? And then picking the accommodations, maybe you set aside an hour and just bang, bang, bang, bang, bang 'em all out. And you know, here's the funny thing. Let's say you get someplace that really sucks.

So I was down in San Diego. My wife was getting some medical thing done down there. And we were there for, we said, "Oh, we'll spend a week down there at the same time." We get this Airbnb. I pick the Airbnb. Maybe similar to your, we should probably, I do like no maximizing, which is a problem.

So we go there and to be fair, they had it listed as a beach view. There was no beach view, so that was a misrepresentation. But we get there and the place is just real tiny and cramped and dirty and some things that I could not have predicted. And there was no view.

And it got real, real fast. My first time at Airbnb experience where we messaged the person who was hosting and she got real like aggressive and crazy and just started saying these crazy threatening things. So then I had to get Airbnb support involved. And there's this illusion that Airbnb is like this company that's gonna like take care of you.

And it's just like some support dude in India who's like, "Let's see what I can do." Anyway, we ended up having to leave, like dramatically. It was like, we had to get out within 15 minutes to not be charged. And so we're hustling out of there. She's sending these like threatening texts and then we leave.

And you might say, "Wow, what a terrible, bad experience." It ended up that we found another place that the guy was amazing and the spot was way better and it was cheaper. And so I think that's a really helpful thing to remember as well is, but what if this happens?

Well, what if that does happen? And then it leads to something extraordinary. And you wouldn't get the extraordinary if that challenge didn't happen. - It's funny 'cause my example of this is the exact same example, which is, when we went to London, we had this horrible Airbnb and the host, we had problems and we surfaced the problems and they told us we have to leave and we got Airbnb support, like literally the exact same thing.

And then Airbnb, where it deviated was Airbnb support was incredibly helpful and booked us a place that costs twice as much but didn't charge us any extra. And we ended up staying at this ridiculously amazing place that I still think about because they had this kid's room, it was like a Harry Potter themed room with a train bed and a little tree reading nook and they turned the radiator into a castle, it was crazy.

But it was really awesome. And that experience wouldn't have happened had we not picked the crappy Airbnb. - Right? So what if you really internalize that and said, "Hey," it's like talking to yourself, you're like, "Hey, the unexpected, the problems can actually lead to extraordinary." And I think when we really get that, now we're talking about something that, if we were to go way back to the beginning of this conversation, how do you define confidence?

Well, after I've been doing this for like 20 years now, I started my own self-confidence at age 20, I'm 40 now. But there's like self, your confidence for yourself, I can handle whatever happens. But I discovered that there's a cap on that. Like how joyful and awesome our lives can be, there's a ceiling on self-confidence.

And to go higher into really thriving in life, I think we need to have confidence in something beyond ourselves, whatever you wanna put in that box, I don't care. But that's the kind of belief that's tapped into that. Hey, even out of the challenging experience, something extraordinary is gonna come.

And that's a beautiful example of that. And you have that memory for the rest of your life, right? It's like a little reminder so that the next time you're sitting down to book something and you're like, just like, whoa, whoa, I'm maximizing. I'm gonna give myself three minutes, pick a thing and who knows, it's gonna lead to extraordinary.

- I love it. I wanna come back, well, I've been thinking ever since we stopped talking about social freedom, there's something that's been resonating in my mind, which is all of these kind of social obligations that my wife and I always look at each other, we're like, gosh, I don't wanna do that thing.

And she's like, yeah, I don't wanna do that thing. But because this friend invited us this thing or this family member said we have to go to this thing and we kind of have to do it and we don't wanna do it. It does that play in there? And is social freedom truly being able to tell your friend or your family member, it's like, hey, we don't actually wanna hang out with you.

So we're not gonna do like, I know you've written a book called "Not Nice". So like, how does this all come together in situations like this to be able to actually do the things we want with our lives and be happy and live our lives, but not make everyone around us think we're assholes?

- Well, definitely tell them just like that. I just don't wanna hang out with you, period, full stop. No, I think, okay, there is really tuning in and asking yourself, what do I or in the case, maybe you and your wife, what do we really want? Or maybe it's what do I want, what do you want?

Let's really get clear on that. And a lot of people don't even let themselves discover that because that's bad to not wanna go to your uncle's friends reunions thing, right? It's like, how bad of me, what a bad nephew and son I am. So, but just in the safety of your own brain and maybe with your partner, it's like, hey, what do I really want?

I don't wanna go to that thing. You wanna go, I don't wanna go to that thing. Okay, and just give space to that. That sounds so simple, but most people don't. And they're just an override, override. Sometimes just airing it and hearing that part of you is like, ah, that feels good.

Then you actually have a choice there. It's like the cold plunge. I don't wanna go to the cold plunge, but I do because here's why. And just tune in. Is that true in this situation? So I don't, look, when it comes to going on a trip and so Christmas time, we go visit my wife's side of the family.

And I love her side of the family. And when it's like travel and this and that, it's like driving there and packing everything up and then staying in their place. Some part of me is like, ah, there's a lot of work. I don't know, just go without me. I'll just stay home, that's fine.

But then I tune in. I'm like, what do I, what do I? Yes, there's a part of me, it's like, it's easier, but what do I really want? And it's like, oh, I really want to be a part and connected with my wife, with family. And so I'm gonna endure some of the discomforts because I ultimately do want, I value and prioritizing or optimizing for connection and deep relationships.

But that doesn't mean I go to everything and every function and every person's thing. So we have to have that choice of like, what are the relationships that I want to really nourish and invest in? And it does involve saying no to a good percentage of things. And doing so in a warm and loving way, thank you for letting me know.

I'm not gonna be able to make it to that. You don't have to give a ton of reasons. I got to take the kids to the dentist. You know, it's like, no, I'm not, I'm not available. I'm not gonna be able to make that. Thank you so much for thinking of me.

I hope you have a great time. But do know that, you know, there are, there's a kind of a social currency that if you have a friend who's always inviting you to things and you always say, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Then when you invite them, they might not be a yes, right?

Like there's a certain investment. But the question is just where do you want to put that investment? And some friends you want to invest a lot with, some you're like, oh, I'll see him once in a while. And some honestly, if it's mainly obligation, it's time to let it go.

- Yeah, I think sometimes it's, I've already let it go and there's people that just keep asking and you're like, what's the polite way to say, I don't want to go to this and feel free to not invite me ever again. I haven't figured out the nice way to do that.

- Well, I think just a simple, like, thanks for the invite. I'm, you know, I'm not available. And just like, if you do that, I mean, first of all, I'd be at some point there that it'll extinguish, I'd imagine, right? It was just continually no. At some point they'll be like, he's not available.

But I mean, you could, that's the next level that would be kind of like just being more direct and real. And that's, hey, look, I always tell people life is a choose your own adventure. You might say, I can't be that guy. That's an asshole thing to do. Well, I mean, just go back to what you said about being bold.

Like there are times where I think it took me a while to get the courage to tell people that I don't have time in my life to do a thing. And I felt like I was being the asshole. And especially with work obligations and responding emails. And I was having a conversation or maybe I was preparing for a conversation with Derek Sivers, who had said, you know, I like to tell people I don't have time.

And when I got his email at one point where he was like, I might not respond to this. There's a lot of stuff going on in my life. And I'm really trying to focus on the things that are the most important. And right now, you know, spending time with my kids is most important.

I was like, I'm not mad that you told me you can't reply to my email. I'm actually jealous that you're like able to. So it had this effect. So maybe the answer to use the same set of habits here is you might think you're being an asshole by saying that, but maybe you're not.

Maybe it won't actually be interpreted in that way. - Yes, you know, it sounds like he communicated with some vulnerability or transparency there, right? Like he shared, it wasn't just like, fuck off. I don't have time for you, right? It was like, you know, hey, this is what's going on for me.

And so that's a great way to do it. It's like the sort of the technique or the communication style. But here's the thing. I think this is the biggest part of social freedom. Are you an asshole or not is based upon, it's in the eye of the beholder. So if you're bad in your mind, that's the biggest problem.

If you're not allowed, it goes against your, I call this your personal bill of rights. You might not have a right to say, no, I'm not available for that. You might not have a right to not respond to all the emails. And as long as you don't have that right, 'cause you haven't claimed it, you're gonna feel guilty.

You're gonna feel stressed. You may even feel irritated at them. How dare you ask me? 'Cause it's now I feel guilty. And if we have a right, like I have a right. So in my personal bill of rights, I have a right to not respond to all emails. Because in this day and age, if you feel pressure to reply to all your emails, like good God, that's...

And the more emails you reply to, the more emails they are. It's like they multiply. And so I'm just, I'll reply to a lot of, some of the emails of my clients. I'll try to get back to a lot of them, but not everybody, not all the time. And that's just...

And so someone out there sometimes might think that Aziz guy, he's an asshole 'cause he didn't do X for me. And you know what? That's okay. And if we're operating in life where no one must ever think that of me, then you're gonna be in a pretzel position faster than you can imagine.

And it's unsustainable and it's not you. So really finding that permission to not do the things that you truly don't wanna do. And then that's certainly bold action, by the way. - Yeah, let's go back to this bill of rights because when I talked to Ramit Sethi about money, he has this Ramit's money rules.

And they just like really simplify his decision-making about things 'cause he just took the uncertainty out of it. So he says, "If someone is raising money for charity, I always give money. If I fly for more than five hours or whatever the number is, I always fly business class." And it just makes it super simple 'cause he's thought about the decision abstractly from actually having to make it.

It's like, I always buy books. Like if I wanna learn something and a book might have the answer, I always buy it. I never stress out if it's $10 or $12 or 20, I just always buy it. Talk about this bill of rights 'cause it seems like something that I and maybe everyone listening would benefit from having.

- Yes, and we all have one. It just, it might be a very short list of rights or it might be a long list of rights. The more socially not free you are, the more you're in the cage, the shorter your bill of rights. A bill of rights is just a statement of permissions.

I'm allowed to, I have a right to. And you'll know what's in your bill of rights based on how you feel and what you do. So do I have a right to say no to that person requesting I come to their thing? Well, did you say yes when you didn't wanna go?

Then you might not have a right that says I get to say no to people's requests, people's invitations. You might have, and this gets, you might say, I have a right to repeatedly say no to someone's requests, right? That's a different thing. And here's some core ones that I encourage people to adopt and make sure they have on their bill of rights, right?

Like I have a right to ask for what I want. I have a right to say no. I have a right to approach anyone, whether that's virtually or in person. Doesn't mean they wanna talk to you, but if you stop yourself before you even allow the opening or the approach, you're gonna limit your life significantly and people have all kinds of stories.

Oh, I'm gonna bother them. Oh, hey, I don't know. Maybe they'll be bothered. Maybe they won't. Let's find out. In the case of the person wanting to hire you for your services, right? I have a right to ask for whatever fee I want for my services, whatever feels right.

And so the longer, and actually it's an exercise. It's very much worth doing. And I do it with clients, like have them sit down and like, well, write it out. It doesn't have to be perfect. What would feel empowering to you? What as you write it, you're kind of nodding your head being like, yeah, all right.

And then just come up with a list of five, 10, and this is your like a nation that has a bill of rights for its people. This is your bill of rights for you. And those must first be written and then they have to be practiced. Otherwise, they're just flowery language on paper.

You're not actually doing them. - Are there a few more examples you can give to inspire people as they're hopefully thinking about what would be on theirs? - Yeah, I mean, I think one thing to break it down is just think of the different areas of your life, right?

So you think about in your relationship, your romantic relationship, right? I have a right to tell my partner when something's bothering me. And now it might sound real simple, but a lot of people shy away. I don't wanna upset them. I don't wanna bother them. I have a right to, oh, here's a...

This one I had to add to my bill of rights. It's a doozy. I have a right to disappoint people. Particularly, I have a right to disappoint my partner. - Let's talk about that, yeah. - Well, that one was like, I would be running around in my whole life trying not to disappoint anybody.

I don't wanna have anyone be let down. And look, it's great to be connected with your spouse and not just constantly not give a crap and disappoint them all over the place, sure. But no matter how loving you're trying to be, how generous you're trying to be, if you're being authentic and true to what you really want, sometimes you're gonna disappoint them.

They want you to go to that thing and you don't wanna go. They wanna have time to connect with you, but you are unavailable for whatever reason. And so being able to say no and then withstand that discomfort of someone is disappointed in me. And the reason I created that bill of right for myself is 'cause I lived with this kind of chronic background anxiety that someone somewhere was gonna be disappointed with me.

And so just to be like, yeah, I have a right. Sometimes people are disappointed with me and I have a right to do that sometimes. And really resting on that, that's what it feels like. It feels like you can rest on your bill of rights and like all is well.

Like I'm allowed to do that. And it's almost like teaching a child, like, hey, you're allowed to do this, but we kind of have to do that for our own selves now. So you can look at that relationship life, look at inside of your career and your work. What are you unique to your thing?

I have a right to ask a question in a meeting. I have a right to disagree with somebody. That's a big one. And you can think about it socially too, right? Like this is a great one. I have a right to change the subject of a conversation. 'Cause nice people can get trapped on the rails, right?

Oh, we're talking about their thing. I don't want to talk. How do I get out of this? And then they pause for a minute. And because you don't have a right to change a subject, instead of changing the subject, you say, hmm, tell me more. And then the conversation keeps going and you're trapped, right?

I lived in that one for a long time. So I have a right to change the subject. Ooh, here's a good one. I have a right to interrupt people, right? 'Cause sometimes you're talking to someone and they're going on and on and on. And you say, hey, I want to ask you something.

That's a great technique for interrupting, by the way. As if it just came to you. Hey, right in the middle of their sentence. Blah, blah, blah. Hey, I just thought of something. I wanted to ask you something. And then boom, you can steer it a new direction. - Yeah, wow.

So many things. Okay, you mentioned last thing. You talked about relationships. You have kids. I have younger kids. I feel like what I've taken away from this is that there's virtually no reason that confidence wouldn't be a skill to improve for anyone. How, as parents, should we think about this and helping our kids have confidence?

- Yeah, I love it. I'd say the biggest transmission to children, hands bar none, is modeling. They're going to observe you all the time. They're gonna replicate your style of speaking, your belief systems, your attitudes toward the world. Later on, they'll rebel and they'll adopt their new, you know, they'll kind of create their own views.

But as young, they're gonna really model you. And so show them is much bigger than telling them. So you might say, ah, just go out there and do it. What are you afraid of? There's no monsters in your room. Come on. But are you boldly approaching the things in your life?

You might say, well, they don't see me at work. Doesn't matter, doesn't matter. They just, they pick up on you and your essence in the world. So practice these things yourself. And then I love to look for little opportunities to like teach them through games and practice. So down our, we live out in the country and down our road, there's this like a big plot of land that was clear cut.

And there's a trail that goes through it. And it ends at this creek and then the trail continues, but you have to jaunt onto someone's property briefly for the trail, and then you go back onto the trail. And every time I go down there, I'm like, I wonder where that trail goes.

But you know, just going on people's land randomly out here, nah, not that, you know, I don't know if that's one of the social freedoms I wanna break, right? So I'm like, I'm there with my son and he's seven. And I'm like, you know, let's go to the guy's house and ask him if we can just walk on the edge of his property and keep going on the trail.

And my seven year old's like, no, I don't wanna, I'm scared, right? And so here's what I do, and this is intentional. We're walking side by side on our way to where we would ask the guy and I hold his hand. So I'm transmitting a message of like safety, like we're okay, we're together.

And that's what we would do with the part inside of us before the action that's like, ah, I'm freaking out. You like, you don't tell yourself like, stop being a coward, you suck, right? No, we're treating yourself like someone you love, almost on my own side. And so I grab his hand and I'm like, oh, are you afraid?

And he's like, yeah. And then this really struck me. He's like, wait, isn't this what you do for work, dad? Help people that are afraid. And I was like, as a matter of fact, it is what I do. So here's what we do. How about we ask them? And the worst that he could say is no.

So I'm just modeling for him to bold action. Then I let him change the level of weight, right? So he gets, starts getting more scary. He's like, I don't wanna ask. I was like, well, how about I go to the front door and you just stay back and you can watch me, but you don't have to be there.

And he's like, okay. So I titrated it for him as opposed to like forcing him. 'Cause if you try to force them to do what they're scared of, that doesn't build the confidence, right? 'Cause they're not taking the efficacy. So I let him hang back, but modeling, watch me.

So I knock on this guy's door, this old man opens the door. He's like, it's already going bad. When he opens the door, he's like, can I help you? And I was like, well, just on the edge of the trail, can we go to the land? And he's like, no, that's our land back there too.

We like to keep it private. And then I said, okay, but even if we just go right along the edge, would that be okay? And he's like, no, we wanna keep it private. I was like, all right, that's fine. And then, so we walk away and we're walking back and my seven-year-old's like, why did you ask him again?

And I said, you always wanna ask twice, just in case you miss something, maybe you could offer a new idea. And he said, he's like, but he said no twice. And I was like, yeah, well, that's what happens. But if you get a no, you can always ask one more time 'cause maybe they'll change their mind.

And so that's a little bit of like teaching and modeling. And look, I'm playing a long game on this. This doesn't mean tomorrow he goes and applies all this, you know, but I have space and he's shy. Both of them are, especially him, is a little new people and I don't push him like, you gotta do it.

It's more just like creating this spacious, really long game modeling and knowing that over time, he'll find his confidence and highlighting his strength. And then one last thing I'll say, which I mean, maybe you do this as a, yours are kind of young, so they might not, this language might not mean a lot to them, but my kids age seven and nine, just telling them that you're proud of them, but not only when they like score the goal and get the A, but just like, we're sitting there, we're eating breakfast and I just put my arm around one of them and was like, hey, I love you, I'm proud of you.

And I don't have to explain why. And you just see them, they're just like their top button, like, hmm, you know, they feel 10 feet tall. And why am I doing that? Because we just have this negative toxic critic in most of us where it's not, maybe it's not tearing you down to the bottom of confidence, but it's like, it's doing a little bit of who do you think you are?

You haven't done enough yet. And just letting them know that they can feel proud of themselves without even achieving, going to the moon or not, can really build this core sense of, I'm on my own side and I'm worthy. - I love it. Yeah, I mean, one year old's not really learning a lot of these lessons, but at three, I think there's a, she was trying to climb this ladder at this birthday party.

And I think I probably, I have a different approach to how I might've taken that now than trying to tell her she could do it, even I knew she could do it, but she didn't. And I have some new ideas that I'll take care of. - One thing is like, oh, you want me to hold your hand while you do it?

Like you kind of find the, like, is there any way that I could be an aid in getting you to do it? - That's what we do on the slide. When there were some steep slides, she was like, I don't want to do it. I was like, do you want to hold hands?

No, do you want me to come up and go with you? Yeah, like just giving various alternatives. - Did you find one that clicked? - Yes. And now she's like, I don't want your hand. Now she doesn't want my hand. - There you go. Make sure that if you encourage them to do the thing though, and they don't, that you yell shame at them until they're crying.

That's the, no, no, I'm just kidding. And one last thing I'll say for your kids age one and three and anyone you're listening, I mean, even at this age, seven and nine that I have, but one and three, man, I just think give yourself a lot of credit. I mean, you're spending time with them.

You're being on the playground with the slide. I mean, I remember when my kids were that year, part of me loved it and part of me was like, this day is going on forever. I'm so bored, you know? And just like giving space for that and knowing that at that age, the most powerful transmission you can do is I see you and you matter.

And you're not saying that a thousand times a day, but just your energy, your attention on them. And I know in this day and age where we're all overstimulated and stressed and this, but just like slowing down, it doesn't mean 24/7, but just, you know, you're there a certain amount of hours every day.

Just like, hey, I see you, I'm with you. It sets this foundation also of like, I'm worthy of attention. And I think that's really healthy too for confidence. - I have a lot of things. I didn't necessarily feel unconfident coming into this, but I still want to go and work on a lot of this and kind of level it up.

So thank you so much. Where can people go get more from you if they're interested? - Just go to my website, draziz.com. That's D-R-A-Z-I-Z.com. There's a free mini course about the five steps to build confidence. And again, this, you don't have to be in the gutter. As Chris is pointing out, right, this is about optimizing.

So, you know, in there you'll learn key strategies for free. I also have a podcast called Strength for the Shy Guy, YouTube channel. You can look me up there too, but just lots of free content to take it further. And anything else you want to learn about my events or other things are on the website as well.

- Awesome. Well, thank you so much. You also got books, lots of stuff. So thanks for being here.