Lorna, a podcast listener from the UK, writes in to ask this, "Pastor John, what should I do about the verses in the Bible that say you should have nothing to do with those who call themselves Christians, but who are sexually immoral?" 1 Corinthians 5.11. "My dad has recently, and still is, committing adultery against my mother and still claims to be a Christian.

Does this give me the opportunity to not talk to him?" Oh my, this is not a new issue for me. One of the pastoral issues over the last 30 years of the entanglement of church discipline with family relations is incredibly difficult. But let me make sure people know the verse she's talking about.

It says, "But now I am writing to you not to associate with anyone who bears the name brother or sister if he is guilty of sexual immorality or greed or is an idolater or a reviler or a drunkard or a swindler, not even to eat with such a one." So the point Paul is making is, I'm not telling you to stop eating with unbelievers who act this way.

I'm telling you to stop eating with believers who act this way. In other words, a kind of holy ostracism. So Lorna is right to see a problem here, and she's not alone. One of the most vexing pastoral problems arises in the church when we try to take the Bible seriously in regard to church discipline, because there are almost always close family members involved with the person being disciplined, like daughters or wives or husbands or brothers or sisters.

So Paul says, "If a person is living in open, unrepentant sin but still claiming to be a Christian, the church should stand away from that person, lest the world get the false message, 'This kind of life is okay. Christians approve of this. It's no big deal. Life goes on as usual.'" And the hope, of course, is that the person will be convicted by this kind of standing away and return to the faith.

And I've got a story of that I may tell in just a minute. So far, so good. That's right. Churches should take those steps. What if the Christian man living in sin has a Christian wife and children? Let's say they're 13 years old, 15 years old. And what if he has a brother he goes bowling with every Saturday night and a sister that comes over for Thanksgiving and other holiday meals?

My own sense is that when Paul gave the instruction not to associate with, not even to eat with such a one, he did not have in mind close family members that are bound to this man on the basis of other relationships rather than being a Christian—relationships like marriage and parenting.

So my counsel has been, let the biblical instructions about family faithfulness take precedence over church discipline, since it is not likely that Paul meant to contradict those instructions for children to obey their parents and wives to be faithful to their husbands, even unbelieving ones. But then I would say that children who have an established household of their own outside the home, or they've set up an independent life for themselves and they're moving on in their careers, and brothers and sisters similarly outside the home, they might well join in the discipline of ostracism in a holy and humble and loving way in the hopes of redemption.

And I'll give this illustration that I referred to. A couple came to me a few years ago concerned about the wife's sister who was living with a guy, not married, still going to church. What should they do? And I took them to this text in 1 Corinthians 5, 11, and I said, "It seems to me that humbly and firmly you should tell them that you think their behavior is a dishonor to Christ and destructive to themselves and their relationship, and that for love's sake, they would not be hanging out with them like they used to anymore, even though they'd love to.

They're not going to contribute to this problem, but they can't go on as usual and treat them as if nothing was drastically wrong." They told me later that this sister—they did that—they told me later this sister was at first very offended and angry, but soon woke up to the seriousness of what she was doing and living with this guy, and she moved out.

And she told them later that their loving ostracism woke her up. So there are some really tough and ambiguous situations, and I would say to Lorna that if she is on her own—I don't know how old she is; she could be 15, for all I know, or she could be 35—Lorna, if she's on her own outside the house, she should say to her dad that she can't carry on life as usual with him while he's sinning sexually like this.

But if she's still living under the roof, if she's 13 years old, 15 years old, and still under the authority of her father, then she goes on praying for him and obeying him, but never approving of his sin or sharing in it in any way. Thank you, Pastor John.

And you may be asking yourself, "Well, how does church discipline work?" There's a process laid out in Scripture, and Pastor John explained it back in episode #148 of this podcast series, #148. Be sure to listen to that episode, most easily found in the apps for the Apple and Android devices.

Well, we have come to the end of another week. I'm your host, Tony Renke. Have a great weekend, and we will see you again on Monday.