Welcome, friends, to this episode of the Everyday Educator Podcast. I'm your host, Lisa Bailey, and I'm glad to spend some time today with you as we encourage one another, learn together, and ponder the delights and challenges that make homeschooling the adventure of a lifetime. Now, whether you are just considering this homeschooling possibility or deep into the daily delight of family learning, I think you'll enjoy thinking along with us.

So don't forget that although this online community is awesome, you'll find even closer support in a local CC community. So go to classicalconversations.com and find a community near you today. All right, listeners, here we are creeping ever closer to the end of our academic year. For many of us, community days are coming to a close.

And I know that there are some foundations communities that have already had their last hurrah. Their celebration, their faces of history, their awards and goodbye ceremonies, and a lot of our challenge students are still plugging away, working on those last minute projects and those last papers and mock trial and senior thesis and all that good stuff.

But I know that for many of us, the end of the year also means that we are looking at assessing our students. Some of our students, especially our challenge students, are experiencing blue book exams. And some of them, for the very first time, are doing what we call blue book exams.

Some of them are a little freaked out and some of their parents are a little worried, too. So I have with me a dear friend, fellow homeschool educator, Emily Martin. Emily, thank you for joining us today. Thank you for having me, Lisa. Emily and I have a little bit of experience taking our own children through the assessment process, but also shepherding other families and challenge students through the blue book process.

So I thought we would just debunk some myths for some people and spread a little good cheer and encouragement for all of us. So Emily is going to help me answer some questions. Now, listen. Even though your young children may not be involved in blue book exams, many of you are concerned about assessment or taking stock at the end of the year.

So we're going to talk about that, too. So this podcast is not just for junior high and high school students who are taking blue book exams, but for everybody. OK, so let me let me ask you this first, Emily, so people can get to know you and your experience.

How did you feel about taking tests when you were a student? I was one of those that had maybe a little bit of test anxiety. I did not. I did not enjoy taking tests. And I would have to study hard to even feel like I knew a little bit of what I was doing.

Right. And I remember the first time I took a test and I sat down and I looked at it and I thought, I actually know the answers to this. I was in college. I was in my sophomore year of college. So I just was not one of those great test takers.

Yeah. And so I never, never enjoyed it. You know what? A lot of people say that. I know I've met lots of students who are great learners. You know, they read, they absorb information, they participate in class, they enjoy the give and take, the wrestling with a good idea.

They don't perform really well on tests. So a lot of people aren't good test takers. And there are skills involved in test taking. And that may be something, parents, that you are interested in giving your children more practice with. Homeschoolers are notoriously low on formal testing. So maybe the truth is our students don't have as much practice taking tests and taking different kinds of tests.

So there's nothing to say that we can't give our students tests as fun, as games, as practice. Not that we're going to score them and keep that as a record, as a mark for or against them, but giving them opportunities to play around with tests. So maybe they're not as nervous as many of us were.

Right. Yeah. And I was one of those that I, to answer factual was difficult. And I preferred an open-ended question so that the teacher would know. Yeah. Like, oh, okay. She knows what she's talking about. I always preferred those versus the matching or fill in the blank. Oh, my gosh.

And I hated what I used to call multiple guess test. The multiple choice where, you know, there were four answers and three of them were sort of close to right. And it was just really hard. That seemed like, to me, as a student, that seemed more like a test designed to trick me than to help me remember and put together all the stuff I had learned.

So I didn't like those either. I much preferred short answer or essay so I could tell all the things I knew. And then you decide, teacher, if that's enough. Exactly. I like that. So we talked about test. But I want to explore with you, Emily, a little bit. What do you think is the difference between a test and an assessment?

Yeah. So I think I looked up the definitions of both test and assessment. Oh, cool. And they are really quite similar. Yep. I think where they differ is the connotation. So a test is like that multiple choice, the fill in the blank, where there is a black and white, you know, get right or wrong answer.

This is the answer. Yeah. So you think about a medical test, right? You're either positive or negative. Right. Whereas assessment, you're trying to get the big picture. Ooh, that is a lovely difference. So talk about that. Yeah. So like my daughter does dance, right? And she's really wanting to go on point.

Well, her dance instructor is going to have to assess her to see whether she's developed enough. So that doesn't mean there's a right or wrong way of doing it. It just means, are you ready? Yes. Versus like an assessment. Like when you have a situation, you're like, well, let me assess the situation.

There's no black or white yes or no. It's more gathering information. Yes. I absolutely love that. Listeners, I hope you'll wind back because that's kind of a profound difference. With a test, you're looking for a black or white answer, yes or no. Did you, student, land on what I, teacher, thought was the right answer?

Right. Versus, yeah, the assessment is tell me what you know. Let's look at the big picture and let's dive into those ideas. Yes. And I think an assessment can involve not just what all you know, but how much more do you know than when we started? So let's assess our progress even more than let's assess, do you have a big enough body of knowledge on this subject for me, your parents feel good about?

I love, I like that with, in relationship to our Challenge A students, very first day of Challenge A, they are told, you are going to, by the end of this year, learn to draw the world. And their eyes get really big. And so what a lot of Challenge A tutors do is they'll hand them a blank piece of paper and say, okay, draw the world as you know it today.

And they are, it's, it's rough, you know, it's, it's not a pretty picture. And then at the very last day for their Blue Book assessment, they are said, they're told, draw the world. And the difference is astounding. And I think that's a great picture of the overall assessment for the year.

It's like, look how much you learned. Right. Look how much better you are at spatial recognition and spatial organization. I can remember when my own girls got to Challenge A and they had to do that the first time. You know, I mean, some of the countries that were supposed to be big were small.

And some of the countries that were supposed to be close to another were actually not that close to that other country. And some of the oceans were too big. But you're right. The assessment is, how have you grown in your ability to think deeper thoughts or to put more things together or to employ this skill in a more polished way?

I love that. And I do think, well, like I said before, that homeschoolers tend not to test. And I understand that. I think that some of us actually drag our feet on assessing also because we have such a negative connotation and because we have always made those the same testing and assessing the same.

So even when those of us who lived the testing life as students and became the, came to the assessing life as homeschool parents, we still have a little bit of a stumbling block, I think. Yeah, I think that we can learn to assess better and make that a little more joyful.

And let me ask you this. Okay. I ask all my guests pointed questions. And so usually it's people that I know, and I know you won't mind answering honestly. And I always tell people, I want you to tell the real truth, not, you know, what you think the prescribed answer should be because there are no prescribed answers here.

So here's the thing I want to know, Emily. Do you do assessments every year with your kids at home? So yes and no. When I have challenged students now. And so my challenge, my oldest is finishing up challenge one. So this is the third year we have done formal assessment as far as a blue book.

Okay. Assessment. Okay. And so that is one way that it's kind of built into the CC program is that end of the year assessment. So that has been done. My other two have gone through foundations. And so there's the memory master in the end. And there's the faces of history, which acts, you know, very much like an end of the year assessment.

But we're also a military family, which means for the past six years, we've lived in four different states. Wow. And every state has their own type of assessment, requirements, laws and requirements. So some states, such as Florida, you had to either do a standardized test at the end of every year or you had to have your portfolio checkboxed by a certified teacher.

And so I chose to do this standardized assessment with my students. In Georgia, it was once every three years. So we were only there for two. So I opted to not do formal assessment that year. And so, you know, I think it depends on, for one thing, I think your homeschool goal as a family, whether or not you decide to assess the laws of the state in which you live, the age of your students.

If you have a six-year-old, you know, maybe just, you know, it may not be as academically important to have like a formal assessment at the end of every year versus your 11th grader who is filling out college applications and they need to turn in a piece of paper. So I think it varies.

But me personally, it just depends on the year and where we live at the time. And so with my challenge students, you know, we, you know, we'll do the end of the year blue book assessment as our formal assessment. Right, right. I think that's really good. And I'm glad that, that our listeners can hear that there is, as always, freedom in the way that you're homeschooling your children.

You are right. Every state has their own requirements. Here in North Carolina, you are supposed to take and turn in the score of a standardized test for each student every year. As far as I've ever been able to determine, there's no prescribed score and nothing. I'm not completely sure that anybody ever looks at these scores, but anyway, we did them.

But I love what you said about it being somewhat dependent on the age of your child. I know when my children were in challenge, there were blue books at the end of the year to assess the progress that the students had made. But I know that in those early years, we didn't do beyond that formal standardized test.

We didn't do a formal assessment. But I did, I remember sitting down with them. Now, maybe not when they were six, but as they got a little older, sitting down with them and asking questions to assess how successful our year was together. Like asking them, you know, what project did you like to do the most?

What, which of the strands, which of the memory work strands was the easiest for you? Which was the hardest? Why do you think it was hard? What were you most interested in reading about after we studied it together? You know, just to see how their interest changed during the year.

It was really interesting to me that sometimes the thing they thought they were going to love the most at the beginning of the year is not what they loved the most. And sometimes the things that they avoided at the beginning, they really enjoyed as we got into it. So those are the kinds of informal assessments that I think all of us can do.

And it helps our children have a hand in that assessment. Yeah. When I'm reading with my daughter, who's still, you know, foundations and essentials age, we'll read a book together, you know. And so I'll say, hey, do you remember when, you know, three months ago you struggled reading this book?

And now look, you can do this now. And so, so that's kind of, you know, like her doing a self-assessment, me prompting her self-assess and say, look, look at your growth. Let's remember where you struggled and now look what you can do. Yeah. Oh, Emily, that's beautiful. And I think parents, even if your children are doing blue books in community, it is wise to have an assessment time, an assessment conversation with your older students.

And the questions get a little more heart intrusive at that point. I mean, I remember asking my girls, do you think you have done your best? You know, we would talk about maybe strands that were more of a struggle for them. And I would say, do you think, was that your best?

Because if that was your best, if you honestly feel like you worked as hard as you could to achieve what you did, whatever you learned in this year was an excellent effort. And we are happy with that. But, you know, it teaches them, too, to assess their own efforts.

If they know they didn't really try very hard or they skated through on some base knowledge of something they just happen to be good at naturally or that they like, that becomes a character issue that, as parents, we can use assessment time to probe also. Yeah. I like to ask my students, what is something you did really well this year?

And how can you improve? And what ways can you improve for next year? What would you like to try harder at doing? And it's amazing. I don't think our teenagers naturally self-assess or naturally think about those things. So you have to prompt them to think about it. And they often, I would say, nine times out of ten, when I ask them those questions, they identify the things that I saw as well, things that they did well or things that maybe just wasn't their best this year.

So they know, but you just have to prompt them to think about it. I think that's good. I think it's a good looking back and looking forward is a beautiful part of assessment like you brought up. Um, so how long have you directed, Emily? How long have you directed in community?

Um, so I did two years as a foundations tutor and I am finishing up my third year directing challenge. So you have a fair amount of experience with assessing within the community. How have you practiced assessment in class with your students and have you changed as you have grown?

Because here's the truth. We all are continuing to grow. I'm a much better assessor than I was 10 years ago because I've learned and I've grown and I've seen that some of the things I thought were important are not really important. And some of the things I was leaving out are the things I need to bring up.

So how have you changed as an assessor? Yeah. So, um, I am a product of public education. My degree was elementary ed. So, um, I'm very, you know, my, when I first started homeschooling, that was very much my mindset. You're like, let's do unit studies. And I wanted to do school at home versus homeschool, which is really different.

Um, so my first year directing challenge, uh, like, okay, you have to write a blue book. Okay, great. I can do this. And, and instead of doing what I should have done and looking in the back of the guide to find great blue book, uh, questions and prompts, I, uh, scoured the internet and I made up a great test and it was matching and fill in the blank, but I kept trying to tell my students, it's a celebration of what you've learned, but they were very black and white, right and wrong answers.

Right. It did not feel celebratory to them. I bet. It was not celebratory. It was very stressful. And, and then I decided to go through the classical learning cohort, which is really a fantastic, uh, class program that CC offers for parents to go through. And we learn a lot about assessment and what are good assessment questions.

And so that started my journey of thinking more classically. Uh, and then through more, more reading and, uh, listening to some of your other wonderful podcast guests and articles on the CC blog that transformed my thinking into, wait, what is more classical? How, how can you assess more classically?

And that's where, um, just this year I, I learned what a classical assessment looks like. And so when, uh, our director at our current community, you challenge a director, it's her first time going through. She's like, Emily, can I see your blue book for challenge A? I'm like, great.

Yeah. I'll send it to you. And I opened it to read through it. I messaged her back. I'm not sending you this. This is not it. I failed this. I was like, no, you are not getting this. I will, I will help you formulate some prompts for your students, but you are not getting this.

Oh, isn't that, that's so beautiful. And so honest, I mean, we as parents are still growing in our understanding of how to shepherd the educations of our children. And if we're not changing and growing, then probably something's wrong because we don't all, all know everything. We don't know all the things that we, we ought to be learning.

So give, give me a couple of, um, examples. We're going to talk about blue books, parents, listeners, I promise we're going to talk specifically about blue books, but Emily, give, give the listeners an example of what a classical prompt might be. Yeah. So, uh, one of my favorite things to do when I am prompting my students, um, is really for one thing, ask a lot about the exposition strand, which is our literature.

And it's, uh, things like, you know, choose two or more characters and compare, uh, their similarities and differences in choices they made. Ooh, uh, or, um, if it's a debate strand, uh, particularly like for challenge one, right now we're discussing economics. So tell me about what you have learned about inflation this year and how does that relate to our economy and how has it related to our economy throughout history?

Uh, and so then they can, they can tally in their American history, but they've learned in the beginning of the year, all the way through like the economics discussion, because we talk about all of that. And, um, and I think it's important, especially for our tutors to, um, make sure you're at, you're, you're formulating your assessment questions based on what you have discussed in community.

Right. Versus, cause there are a lot of great questions out there, but if you're, if it's not something you've discussed, your students may not really know how to answer. Well, they may not know how to integrate it with the other things. And that's truly, I love what you were saying.

I picked up on something that some of our listeners may have picked up on. You are formulating these questions, these prompts using some of the 15 skills that we are sharpening as parents and as students in our reading and in our studying. So I, I saw, I heard, um, relationship and definition and comparison in those examples that you gave.

So those would be, um, if we just, as parents, if we thought, well, how do I come up with a classical prompt? If we keep those skills in mind, that's a great start. Exactly. Yeah. Um, so I think it's, it's more, um, and I think maybe the most basic way to explain a classical assessment versus, you know, a, uh, formative test in like the public school system is they're more open-ended.

It's more. Yeah. Tell me about what you know. Tell me about what you know. And there are, it does get a little fuzzy, especially when you're talking about Latin, right? Yeah. I mean, you do have to, there are some things you need to know. Yes. That don't change. That aren't a matter of opinion.

Right. Exactly. Such as, uh, let's write out the endings for the five declensions, you know, but you may not know every single one, but you certainly know a lot more of them from when you started. Right. And maybe you have keys to figuring out based on some of the other questions.

Maybe you know enough to recognize it when you see it. Exactly. Yeah. Or let's translate this sentence and tell me what you know about this sentence in English and Latin. Oh, that's so good. Okay. So I want to be sure that we answer. Cause I know that some parent came on here because it was, it was called blue books.

They're coming in here wanting to know what is a blue book exam. I never had a blue book exam until I was in college. I didn't know what in the world that was. And they were, by the way, mostly very much more like a test than an assessment. Although I will, I was a political science major, um, and a philosophy minor.

And so a lot of them were, I mean, essay questions, but, but they still felt more like a test than an assessment. What is a blue book and why in the world do we call it a blue book? Yeah. So quick story. I, uh, I brought my boys, one of my daughter to, um, my old college last weekend.

Oh, cool. And I was like, Hey guys, let's go through the bookstore just for fun. No offense to this higher learning facility, but, um, there were zero books in the bookstore that we could see. It was t-shirts and mugs and things, but they did have a rack in their school supply section and stacked up were blue books, blue books, like a dollar 75.

And I was like, Hey guys, look at this. That's a blue book. So it is literally a blue book. Yes, it is a blind paper with a blue sheet of paper on top of it. And it says blue book and a place for your name. And that's it. That's why they call them blue books because they're covered in blue paper and it's just a notebook stapled together.

Um, but how we use it in CC challenge is, you know, we have our students give them a list of prompts to answer based on every strand and tell me what you know. So what should our students know as they're coming in to these last weeks and, you know, in community, you are likely beginning to talk about as you prepare for the blue book final or for the blue book exam, what should students know about blue books?

So I think, uh, a thought just came to me, um, and I want to touch on real quick. And then I'll answer that is I, for parents, more of the formal assessment happens throughout the year. It's, um, the math, you know, if they're still going through Saxon, some of our older challenge students are still going through the Saxon level math.

Um, what are their, what are their grades on their math? They're writing their essays. Okay. Did you, did you knock off all these things that you need to do for your essays? Is the grammar correct? Is the spelling correct? Did you, uh, is your thesis well-formed? That's your formal assessment.

Um, again, if they're doing the apology of sciences throughout our upper level challenge, they have those study guides, the test. Those are the formal assessments that your student will get throughout the year because they, at the end of the day, they do need to have a transcript, right? Uh, if they're going into, yeah.

And you want to be sure the incremental learning is happening, that there's not, you, that you didn't miss a step that's going to cause you to stumble later on. Exactly. Yeah. So the formal assessment that, you know, they, you need, if a parent chooses to do the form, you know, more of a formal assessment that is generally happening throughout the course of the academic year.

Now the blue book for the students is the opportunity to spew your thoughts and ideas that you have on these topics at the end of the year, uh, or mid-semester. We do one, you know, in the, we do at the end of the fall and the end of spring.

So it's tell your parent and tell your director all your thoughts and ideas on this topic. There is no wrong answer. I did have one caveat for some of my students that were. Less academically astute. You will have to give me more than one sentence. Right. You do not have to fill the entire blue book, but it needs to be more than a page.

And I need more than, I don't know. Right. Yes. And not in big writing. Don't try to fill it up. I'm writing twice as big. Yes. We know all of those tricks. It's like, I want complete sentences. Give me your ideas. I know you are. Sure. Okay. Okay. So you've, but you've hit on some really good things.

Um, it is, the students need to know that it's an opportunity for them to think deeply about what you've discussed in class and connect things. Yeah. Yeah. It's also a time for them to carefully, um, communicate. They have been practicing clear communication. And so it is important that they use full sentences, that they kind of pay attention to paragraphs and topic sentences and theses and, and punctuation.

And it is, it, it's an opportunity for you to be creative and sharing what you know, but you still need to follow. It's a formal, it's a form. And so you want to be sure that you are taking it seriously enough to do a good job. Yeah, exactly. And it's really interesting if you have a student moving up through the challenge levels to save those blue books too.

Yes. And to go back and look, say, look how well you did, you know, here you're, you're, you were on the right track. But then by the time they move up into the challenge levels, they have some really great responses to these blue book prompts. I love watching, um, the thought process develop and, and I loved watching it in my own girls.

They became, um, better and better at pulling in more strands, um, tying together. It's like, I remember telling, going upstairs one day and telling my husband, this really does work. This is amazing. They are really able to see the connections between things that on the surface have no connection, but because of what they've studied and talked about and wrestled with in community and the things that we've harped on at home and led them to, they are really making some good, um, comments and some good connections.

I love that. So how do you tell your students to prepare for blue books? Um, I do give them throughout the last couple of weeks. Hey guys, let's, let's pay attention to this. This may be on blue book. Right. And a lot of parents like to see the prompts ahead of time.

So I tried about a week or two before you send them, Hey, this is what's going to be on the blue book or tell your student to, you know, maybe read over these, these things again, because I'm going to ask them about it. And that way the parents know, do not, however, again, create the formal test and send that out to your parents because then the student will get it and memorize the answer key that you've also sent your parents.

Yes. Not a good look. Not a good look. No, no. I made that mistake once. I'm glad that you said that about sending the prompts to the parents. Cause I was going to ask you, what do parents need to know about blue books? And, and I would think that they need to, a lot of parents that we deal with, um, only went the public school test route like you and I did.

And so when they hear blue book, they think test and they may need to know that the way to assess classically is somewhat different. And so the preparation for that assessment would be somewhat different. Talk a little bit about how do we help parents know what they can do to help their students?

Yeah. So, um, you know, if, if you, if your students, a director or tutor has not yet sent prompts, maybe just ask them, Hey, do you have, what's going to be on the blue book? And they probably already do. Most people plan several weeks ahead of time. Um, and then you can sit down with your student and say, Hey, you know, she said, this is going to be on the blue book.

Let's have a conversation about it because honestly, you only get, the student only gets a short amount of time, maybe an hour per strand, um, and most are less than that. Um, so that the student can actually start formulating their ideas and think about it that way. They're not staring at an empty page, not knowing what to write.

So to help the student start formulating those ideas. Exactly. Yeah. And I think that's very hospitable for the student because we are still talking about teenagers and even in college. I mean, most students know what's going to be on the exam ahead of time. Yes, yes, yes, yes, it is.

It's, there are students who are just deer in the headlights if they see a prompt for the first time and haven't thought about it at all. Now there are students who've seen it before and still haven't thought about it at all. So for me, that's on them. But you're right, it's hospitable, um, to give them to kind of prime the pump a little bit and get the juices flowing.

What do I think about this? What, how would I explain the conclusions that I've drawn so that they're not just starting cold? Exactly. That's beautiful. So I think from talking to you, I now really do understand that blue books can be a celebration. They can be a celebration of the year that you've had as a community, um, as a class, a celebration of what you and your student have done at home together.

Um, how, give us some ideas. How can we help students and parents and communities see blue books as celebrations? And what could we do to make it feel like a celebration? Yeah. So I think it's, uh, opening the conversation, um, from, I mean, even foundations and essentials age to say assessment is a celebration.

It is, it is to celebrate what our students have learned and how they have grown throughout the year and start that, that lingo early at an early age. Um, and then as they move into the challenge years, um, just remind them, Hey, there is no wrong answer on this.

We, we want to know your thoughts and ideas and it should not feel stressful. It should feel like the opportunity to share what, you know, um, and then to make it look like a celebration, many communities, uh, do something fun. You know, usually those days are challenge only days anyway.

Yes, I know. Yeah. And so it's, I mean, however, you know, whatever fits in your budget. Uh, we've done everything from just having a hot cocoa bar, you know, after the call assessment and pizza and just hung out at the church to, um, I, in a moment of insanity, I decided to take my, uh, challenge B students, uh, two hours away.

We all hopped in my car and went two hours away and did some indoor rock climbing. And that's how we celebrate it. Oh my word. That's great, Emily. That's great. So, you know, just however crazy you're feeling that day, you know, and a lot of times it ends with a pool party or something, but, um, just a way to celebrate the end of the year because they have worked so hard and you are celebrating their, their year of hard work.

And so whatever that looks like to your community, um, they make it fun and make them, help them associate that blue book equals good time afterwards. Yes. I think that's very wise. Um, and I do think that we do our students a service if we help them learn to self-assess and the self-assessment can be, did I do my best?

Um, how have I grown? What skills have I gained or what skills have I sharpened? Um, what do I know more about? We want blue books to leave our students feeling proud of the effort they've expended and excited about what they've learned and what they're able to do. Maybe that they never thought they could do.

Right. And I always tack on one question. Uh, usually it's in the research strand. Um, but how has studying research helped me to know God and make him known? Perfect. Or how has, you know, and just fill in the blank. How has whatever, studying this helped me to know God and make him known?

Because I mean, that's our, that's our mission at CC is to help our students know God. And so to help them take a minute to reflect on how has this enhanced my faith? Yeah. Yeah. And that's all that. Yeah. Where did I meet God this year? Yeah. You know, where, how do I see him more clearly?

How do I hear his voice? Cause God is always trying to communicate to us. I think the entire world and the purpose of education is to be able to communicate with God about what he's trying to communicate to us. Exactly. And I think that the more you dive into the literature that has been specifically curated for our, uh, curriculum and the research and, you know, as you move up, you get into the philosophy, you know, all the wonderful, uh, other things that come together.

It's, um, it's really more integrated into everything, the knowing God. And so, yeah, just how, how has this year helped me grow my faith and how have I known God more? Yeah. And that is a beautiful celebration of a year. Thank you, Emily. Thank you. You have said some really profound things and have given us some really good ideas to chew on about blue books.

Parents, I hope your minds are more set at ease about what a blue book is and what your student's role is in preparing and what your role is in supporting them as they prepare. If you are, if your head is spinning a little bit and you think, wow, I wish I had been assessed like this or I wish that I knew more about those classical tools that Emily used to develop those classical questions, those prompts, um, you should attend a parent practicum this summer.

Every year in communities all over the world, uh, parents gather to practice those 15 skills, those classical tools. Um, so that we as parents can become better lead learners in the home, better shepherds of our children. This summer, we'll be practicing the classical skills, um, on math, on the math map.

You may have students, um, in your home who are going to be diving into the math map for the very first time this year. Some of you have students who will be continuing in the math map. This practicum this summer will not only help you grow as a classical educator, it will help you get your hands on and dive into the math map a little bit.

If you're looking for a parent practicum near you, go to ccpracticum.com. You'll be able to put in your zip code and find a like-minded community who's eager to grow and becoming lead learners just like you are. That's ccpracticum.com. And we will look for you guys at a practicum this summer.

Um, Emily, again, thank you for being on and helping us to, to learn how to see blue books as a celebration. Yes, you bet. I loved it. And I love seeing your face. Oh, I'm glad to see you too. We don't get to see each other often enough face to face.

All right, you guys, uh, we will see you next week. Bye-bye. Bye-bye.