(upbeat music) - Welcome friends to this episode of the "Everyday Educator" podcast. I'm your host, Lisa Bailey, and I'm excited to spend some time with you today as we encourage one another, learn together, and ponder the delights and challenges that make homeschooling the adventure of a lifetime. Whether you're just considering this homeschooling possibility, or deep into the daily delight of family learning, I believe you'll enjoy thinking along with us.

But don't forget, although this online community is awesome, you'll find even closer support in a local CC community. So, go to classicalconversations.com and find a community near you today. Well, listeners, the holiday season is upon us, and "Everyday Educator," as you know, takes its holidays very seriously. So today, in this first podcast of the Advent season, we are going to be talking about a great book and a great movie now, "The Best Christmas Pageant Ever." I know that probably you and your family are getting ready to celebrate, and you are probably doing all kinds of traditional things, like baking cookies and decorating the Christmas tree, and maybe you and your family are even involved in a Christmas pageant.

So, I suspect you've already heard that there's a new movie out, "The Best Christmas Pageant Ever" has become a movie, and lots of you may have already seen it, or maybe you're kinda waiting on some reviews, wondering if it's worth checking out or not. So, this podcast is all about "The Best Christmas Pageant Ever," and I've got some friends who are gonna give you some feedback.

All right, welcome, my friends and fellow pageant lovers. They are, people are eager to hear what you guys have to say about the movie, because some of us, I have to admit, I'm one of 'em, have not seen it yet, okay? So, so, me and all my listeners are eager to hear what you have to say.

Now, listeners, I have to tell you, I had to cap the guest attendance on this podcast, because when I went fishing among my buddies, there were so many people who wanted to weigh in and share their reviews. So, you're just gonna get my friend Babs, Babs Harrell, say hello.

- Hello. - And my friend Jamie Hayes. - Hello. - And Deb Switzer. - Hello. - And Jennifer Hester. - Hi. - Okay, so all these gals are gonna help us delve into what's so great about this story, and why was this movie worth their time? I have to say this, in the spirit of Christmas, I'm giving you a spoiler alert.

We are gonna share details. So, if you don't know this story, and you hate to have spoilers to your story, then pause the podcast, go read the book really quick, and then come back and finish listening to the podcast. I will tell you, most of you could probably read the book by Barbara Robinson, "The Best Christmas Paget Ever." You could probably read it in one sitting.

It is delightful. It is not complicated reading. It is a great read aloud for your kids. So, that's another suggestion for you. All right, guys, let's just jump in. All right, Deb, I want you to give us a rundown on the storyline. You don't have to go into tons of specifics, but a rundown on the storyline.

What is this about? - Such a great, funny story. I just laugh aloud every time I've read it. The best way to sum it up is the first sentence of the book, which is, "The Herdmans were absolutely the worst kids "in the history of the world." (Deb laughs) It's basically about these six siblings, the Herdmans, who are the bullies of this charming little neighborhood, and we have the story of how they get involved in church.

So, they bully, and they smoke cigars, and they do all these weird things. They cause all kinds of destruction, and they never go to church. And through a series of events, they end up wanting to be part of the Christmas pageant in the town, and they force their way in, and they come to the Christmas story with a whole different perspective, and you kind of wonder what's gonna happen.

But all the community ends up learning more about the whole Christmas story as they get involved with these kids as they walk through the pageant together. And it's really delightful. The way that it ends is just so sweet. But you see lots of interactions between the kids, and all the different things that we kind of see in ourselves comes out as they go through that pageant together.

- Yeah, so the premise of the story is very simple. I mean, it's Christmastime in a small town and at a church, and so there's obviously gonna be a Christmas pageant. Yeah, and so the whole story is about, like Deb said, how these quote-unquote worst kids in the world infiltrate the pageant and take it somewhere it has never been before.

Now, Jamie, there's more than just the herdmans, the bad little guys, the bad kids. There's more than just the herdmans in the story. Tell us a little bit about other characters, and even more about the herdmans if you want to. - Yeah, so the herdmans are a group of siblings.

I think there's five of them. And like Deb said, they are known as being bullies. They don't tend to have any parents or parental oversight. And then the main crux of it all, I think, is just that the fact that they don't know the story of Christ's birth, which is what the whole book is about.

And then, of course, you have to have the good people, quote-unquote, which would be the local church body who are very prideful of their pageant that they do every year. And they have very high standards. In fact, this is a very important year. It's the 75th anniversary of the pageant.

Crews, news crews are coming to videotape it all. And so there's a lot riding on the pageant this year. And then there's this family in the church, the Bradleys, who's a mom, Grace, dad, Bob, and then their two children, Beth and Charlie. And they become the people who interact the most, it seems, with the herdmans.

They also seem to be mediators almost between the church and the herdmans throughout. And the mom ends up having to take on running the pageant. And she does it differently than anybody else wants her to do it. And so that causes a lot of problems for those that have a lot of pride in this pageant.

- And a lot of tradition, I bet, yeah. - Yes. - Don't mess with tradition. - Exactly, yeah. The same people, right, always do the same parts. And that didn't quite work out with bullies in the midst. And then the kids, I just think that they started out viewing the herdmans, of course, like everybody else, the bullies.

- Sure. - And then I think as Beth and Charlie watched their parents interact with the herdmans, they grew a lot of just going from seeing them one way, but watching their parents ask questions or interact with the herdmans and realizing that there's always more than one side of the story.

- Oh, wow. - And it's great to ask questions. I also love the fact that Beth and Charlie come across in the movie as very real live examples of children their age. - Okay. - And little things that that age child would be going through and the thought processes that that age child would have.

I felt they portrayed that really well. - Oh, that's so good that it's realistic. You know, you always think that, are they gonna portray it in a way that I could recognize my kids or that my kids could recognize themselves? And I know one of the things that I loved about the book was that the author, Barbara Robinson, seemed to really get kids.

'Cause like in the dialogue of the kids and in their thoughts, like this is really how kids think and this is how they would really react. These are the things that kids are afraid of. These are the things that are boring to kids or the things that they dread or the things that they wonder about.

So I'm glad that the movie makes the kids real. I think that tends to draw audiences into the story if they can relate to it. But now the Herdmans, they sound like a bunch of pieces of work. They sound like some wild kids who maybe have a lot of rough edges.

I know at least in the book, it comes across as they are utterly unfamiliar with spiritual things, especially with churchiness. Like they don't know how you're supposed to conduct yourselves at Sunday school or in the sanctuary or when you're reading a Bible verse. And they tend to ask some kind of rude questions, what might be viewed as rude questions.

Jennifer, did you know any kids like the Herdmans when you were growing up? - I mean, didn't we all? (all laughing) I mean, I think everybody has experienced or witnessed some form of bullying or the outside kids who didn't belong or whatever. So I think that we can all relate to knowing somebody or witnessing somebody similar.

Yeah, there's always the bullies in school. And what I thought was really interesting and I had pointed out after watching the movie, 'cause some of my kids have read the book and some haven't, was, were they really that terrible? Like once, spoiler alert. Once the fire scene happened and they realized that it wasn't actually the Herdmans that started the fire, it made me question some of the other things that they had been accused of.

Was it assumed that they had done these things and maybe the kids just played into what people believed about them? - Aha. - And so it just sparked a really great conversation with my own family on, do we fall into what other people believe because it's just easier than fighting it?

Or do we have a perceived reality of other people, even the bully, right? Like there's a reason behind the behavior most of the time. And so it was just a really great moment to pause and talk about who do we know like this and what, you know, what do we really know about them?

Is there something that we're missing? Is there a missing piece? - Is there a reason that they're acting that way or are they really acting that way? Or do we, are we making it worse by the way we think about it? - My mom was quick to tell me that they did in fact do some of the things that they were accused of.

(laughs) - That is so funny. That's really good. And that's a really good talking point to have with your kids. Yeah, I love that. So let me ask you this Babs, were you in Christmas pageants when you were a kid? - Absolutely. Weren't we all made to be in Christmas pageants just like the kids in the play?

- That's what I was getting ready to say. Were you made to be in it? I can remember when my kids were little, I remember being in pageants and I remember my kids being in pageants and if they wanted a different part, no, these are all the parts we have.

And the little girls in the primary Sunday school class are always the angels and the big, it really did seem like there were roles that you just got pushed into. What was your part? Do you remember what was your part some year or all the years? - So we never did the same one every year.

We always had a new play. And we always had different people who were directing. We didn't always have the same person who directed. Well, I mean, there were a lot of adults, like as a group, that kind of did it together. But, so I've been an angel. I know it's hard to believe that, but I have been an angel.

I have been an animal in the stable. - Oh yeah. - And I remember just from reading the book and then watching the movie, we did this play at our church. - Oh wow, cool. - I got to play, I think her name's Beth. She was the mom that was in charge of the play.

And I think I was in middle school at that point, but I got to play her. And so that was a really great memory to go back and watch it and just to kind of relive what we were doing at our church. And I even asked some people from our church, do you guys have any pictures of us doing this?

I just want to relive, you know, I want to see the pictures and relive, but so far nobody has found anything, so. - In a minute, I want you to talk maybe about what did you understand about, you're playing the part of that mom who had to take on running the pageant and answering all those questions about, well, why are you not doing it the way we always did?

Well, what are you going to do about this? And, you know, did you get that? So hold on to that though, because I know that I want to talk about kids playing the same roles. And I know a lot of, my husband's a pastor. And so we have served lots of little churches where the Christmas pageant is just what this little Sunday school kids do.

They reenact the Christmas story every year. And so there were always the kids who were the angels because they could sing pretty. And then there was always the kids who were the shepherds 'cause they didn't have any lines and they didn't want any lines. And so sometimes you end up with the same part every year.

Deb, what happens if the same kids do the same roles every year? What do you think might happen for those kids or even just for the tradition of the church? - Yeah, I think it's fascinating. You know, I've directed Christmas pageants too in our church and, you know, there are gonna be the ones who never want to speak and the ones who want to just be in the background.

And I think one of the jobs of even the director is to keep it fresh. And I think that that's one of the messages of this book is how do we get out of the rut of the Christmas story being so familiar to us that it's become just these lines to this whole town as they're sitting in there and the kids aren't connecting with the lines anymore because it just all sounds the same.

They said, "I could read it backward and forward." And they don't have a fresh understanding of the nativity and what it means. And I think that that's the beauty of being able to reenact the Christmas story and the way that the book and the movie present it is that we have the joy of being able to come at it fresh every year, that it took the herdmans to be able to knock them out of their tradition, maybe, but then it was just this beautiful, fresh understanding of who Jesus is and what it meant that he came to Mary and what it meant that he came to the world.

And if we can take something like this story and be able to make it fresh in all of our lives, the way that the herdmans did in a very funny way, but keeping it fresh is one of the beauties, I think, of the season is that Christ's story always has new meaning to us every single year.

- Deb, can I add to that and say what I loved was the kids were asking such great questions because you don't know what you don't know, right? - Yes, yes. - And so that was an assumption that everybody knew the story. And so I loved, I just laughed out loud when they go back home and the dad says, "How did it go?" And they're like, "Oh, it was horrible." They have all these questions and they don't know anything and they're obsessed with Herod and what happened to King Herod and the dad pauses and he goes, "Well, what did happen to King Herod?" And I'm like, "I don't know." - Right, right.

It's so funny. There are whole pieces of the story that we just kind of swallow and don't explore. And well, in your mind, you're thinking, "Yeah, but that's not the point of the story." But like who decided that that wasn't the point of the story and maybe it would be more of a point of the story if we explored it a little bit.

Yeah, I think that's really cool. I wonder, I'm thinking about it, you guys were saying it helps the people who are watching the pageant and the people who are even helping with the pageant, it gives you a different sense of the message. It gives you a different message when the herdmans introduce a new perspective.

But think about if you are the child who has the same role every year in the Christmas pageant, then you only know the story from that one perspective. Maybe you don't know the whole story at all. And it sounds like the herdmans, because they were unfamiliar with the story, so very unfamiliar with the story, that they were curious about all of the parts and how it all fit together in ways that I think when we pigeonhole kids and just give them a shepherd part every year and they never think about the Mary and Joseph part or they never think about the wise men and what they might have felt.

I think it helps us, a movie or a book like this helps us to see all the pieces of the story and how they might fit together. - Yeah, it was neat to see Imogene's portrayal in the movie and just the way that she said, "Mary must've been tough," right?

And we have these beautiful images of Mary and the movie brings it out really well, so does the book. But just because she's such a tough character with tough siblings and other things, and she's able to just really show, "Hey, this girl that had to bring forth "the savior of the world, "she had some toughness in her too." And it's just this, it's bringing forth a freshness that when somebody else plays the role, like you said, they can see it in a whole different way than maybe the person who did the previous year or even just, and then when we see it, we bring that new life to the story as well, which is great.

- Even down to the gifts that they brought, them questioning like, "Why would they bring these gifts to a baby?" And then in the end for the kids to bring something that, they brought the ham that was so important to them, something that they only got once a year and they were, what is the word?

Like the imagery of them giving up something that was so important to them for this moment. - Yeah, it was a real sacrifice. - Right. - It was a real sacrifice. And that they were moved to sacrifice gives a whole new understanding, a whole new version of the story.

So let me ask you this, Jamie, what is the tone? Okay, you've read the book and seen the movie, correct? - Yes. - So what was the tone of the book? When you read the book or if you remember when you read it for the first time, what was the tone of the book like?

- I just remember it being very funny that my imagination just went really wild with how things were described. And yet at the same time, within seconds, I could be crying just because of the poignant questions that these children would ask. Because like y'all said, they had no idea.

And it's a very, very easy read, like you said, just to be able to pick it up and finish it in one setting. We would take it, we'd drive a little ways to get to church. And so as our children were growing up every December, this book was the book that came with us on one Sunday and would read it aloud.

And we tended to get through it in one Sunday. And very much just a sweet memory of reading that together. - Yeah. - It makes for a really good read aloud because it's real approachable for little kids because the characters, the children in there talk and think like your children.

They talk and think like real children and they ask the real questions. And we've all had, you've all said it, we all knew kids like the Herdmans. We all went to school. We all hid from kids like the Herdmans, or avoided them. And then we all also had Goody Two-Shoes friends, or maybe we were the Goody Two-Shoes friend, who was always looking to complain about the Herdmans or about whoever was doing the part wrong.

And so it's very, very approachable. And it's funny. And it's funny. And what about the movie, Jamie? Do you feel like the tone of the book and the movie are compatible? Are they the same? Will we be surprised? - They are very compatible. My husband and I were talking about it because the one thing that we both walked away from was, wow, we thought the movie would be funnier.

- OK. - And so that was the one little letdown. But the more we thought about it, we're like, you know what? When you're reading a book and you're not seeing pictures, your brain and imagination runs wild. But in a movie, they give you almost limitations of what your brain can do because they're showing you.

And so I think that's why it didn't come across as funny. There are great laughing points in it. But I specifically took my dad to the movie because he's the type of guy who will roll in the floor, basically, because he's laughing so hard. And so I told all my children, I said, we're going with grandpa.

We're going to watch this so that I can watch him. And it did eventually get him chuckling really well. In fact, I'll share my favorites later on. But there were just so many parts in the book where I remember myself rolling in the floor. And it didn't happen as often in the movie.

But I think it's because of that limitation of your imagination being limited to what you're seeing versus what you can create in your mind without an image in front of you. - Yeah, it's so funny. There are some really laugh out loud. Even if you're reading it, if you're reading the book, if you're reading it to yourself, there are some laugh out loud moments in the book.

And I'm going to let everybody share their favorite moment. And then you can talk about your favorite moment in the book. And if the movie treated it well, or if you have a different favorite moment in the book. Babs, I'll start with you. So what is your favorite part of the story?

And if you have one favorite part in the book and a different favorite part in the movie, that's fine. But if you have a favorite part in the book, I want you to talk about how the movie handled that part of the story and if you were satisfied. So Babs, you go first.

What's your favorite part of this story? - OK, this is going to be really weird, probably. But my favorite part, and it's only because, like I said, we did the play when I was a kid, is this one part where Imogene is talking to-- I think her name is-- it's the daughter.

I think-- oh, and Beth, because Grace was the mom and Beth was the daughter. So she's talking to her because she's basically telling her, do not raise your hand to be married. And so this is what she said. I'll just quote it. I'll just read it. So it says, "Next spring, when the pussy willows come out, I'll stick a pussy willow so far down your ear where nobody can reach it.

And it'll sprout there. And it'll grow. And it'll grow. And you'll spend the rest of your life with a pussy willow bush growing out of your ear." I don't know why. That's my favorite. And I think it's just because I see the kids, the two girls that were playing it in our church, I see them.

And I hear their voice. - Oh, my gosh. Yes. Yes. See, that's one of the things that's so real. I mean, that is the kind of thing that one little kid would say to another little kid if they knew how to best bother the other child. And so it's just so real.

No grown-up would ever think of threatening you that way. But a kid would absolutely think of that. So does that part make it into the movie, Babs? - It does. I don't think it was as amazing as I envisioned it from our Christmas play. So that was kind of-- but she did do a good job.

I mean, she did say exactly the same thing. I think my favorite part of the movie, though-- and obviously, I'm an adult, so it's a little bit different-- - Right. - --was when it's kind of the spotlight is on Imogene as Mary. And so it's like-- and she cries.

There's tears in her eyes. So I think she realizes what Mary is and what Mary done. And I think it just kind of touches her. And then I think the audience sees that. And then they are moved by it. And so I think that became my favorite part of the movie itself, because you can read that.

And I think you can try to envision that. But I think seeing everybody's faces and how they moved at just Imogene playing Mary, that was my favorite part of the movie. - Yeah. Watching that understanding dawn on that child does something to you. And it hopefully will make something dawn in each one of us as well.

OK, Deb, what's your favorite part of the story? And is it the same favorite part in the book and in the movie? - Oh, it's definitely the ham. - So talk about the ham. - Oh, my goodness. Just the concept, as Jennifer was even saying, of these three boys coming down as the Wise Men.

And they're just carrying this ham to lay at the manger. It's so, so funny. But it's also so beautiful at the same time, which is when I read it, I just went, oh, my goodness. That is just fabulous that they're owning the story. They're owning the part and bringing a sacrifice to the baby Jesus, bringing a real gift, which they didn't have the beauty of that in their poverty, to bring something that was so valuable to them.

Food, right? That's like a half of the book was how they want food all the time, right? They want the desserts and the snacks at church and all these other things. And they're willing to sacrifice it because this story all of a sudden has meaning to them. And that, I think, was by far my favorite part in the book.

And I think they did an amazing job with it in the movie. One of the twists that they put on the ham in the movie is that the dad, which isn't in the book, the dad in the movie actually goes home to home for the church and brings the Christmas baskets with the food and the different things.

And they go to the herdman's with the ham. And you just have such more of a personal revelation as you see them fighting over the ham and Imogene saying, he didn't eat it yet. And they're all hammering over it. And you see that in the end that this gift that was given to them, they turn around and they give back to the baby Jesus.

And they don't want it back. They say, no, we don't want it back. We gave it. And that is just so beautiful. And I just loved that twist that they put on it in the movie. And I thought it was a good-- I thought it was a good upgrade.

Yeah. Oh, thank you for sharing that. I think it's very poignant that what the children understand about giving a gift of honor and of sacrifice is amazing given how new their knowledge of the Christmas story is that they have jumped to that level of understanding is so, so very cool.

All right, Jennifer, what's your favorite part of the story? And is it the same in the book and the movie for you? Well, everybody took mine. It's the problem with going after others. I was like, over here, I'd write something down. And then somebody else would go, I scratched it out.

OK, I'm going to come up with something else. So I think one of the things that I loved in the book-- and it was in the movie too, but it wasn't my favorite part of the movie. But one of the things that I loved in the book was the way that their daughter, her view of the herdsmen shifted, and she started defending them.

Yes. When-- I don't remember the character's name-- the quote, unquote, "good girl" that usually appears. Is it Alice? Is it Alice? Maybe-- anyway, anyway. It sounds like it would be an Alice, right? No offense to any Alice's out there. But the way that she would write things down in her notebook to show her mom.

And she would say-- she would stick up for them. And her turn from being annoyed or even scared of them to defending them through the book, I thought was just a beautiful shift in her character. So I really liked that. I also really like the youngest herdman, because I'm also a youngest and kind of wild.

So it's kind of related to her. Gladys? Was it Gladys? She was just so funny, I thought. But my favorite part of the movie-- I had two, and they've both already been said. But one was when the dad was delivering the turkeys, and the children did not know that he had been delivering to the herdmans for all of these years.

And it was this revelation of, wait, dad delivers hams here? Because that was the first time the parents had taken them on their route for them to be able to see that in person, to see that they needed it. So I loved that moment where you could see it on her face.

The actress did such a great job portraying that character. And the shift right there of just the realization of how poor they really were. So I loved that. And then I also loved the spotlight of Imogene crying. I cried in the theater. It was just so beautiful. And the way that you could see the change in the entire congregation in that moment.

Everyone had been holding their breath to see what would happen. It was that moment that the church was convicted and how they had behaved and what they thought and what they needed to do moving forward to care for the family. And so I loved that moment. - Oh, that is so good.

You know, you could just picture a church full of people coming to see, this is going to be a different pageant. This is going to be a pageant unlike any we have ever experienced. And they were right, but for a completely different reason. - Yes. - That's so cool.

All right, Jamie, tell us if there are any favorite parts left. What was your favorite part of the story? And is it the same in the book and the movie for you? - So it's been a little while since I've read the book. So I don't know. Maybe someone who's read it recently can tell me if it's the same.

But there were two parts, the one being, we mentioned Herod earlier. And another thing that the Herdmans would say when they heard that the innkeeper could not find room for Mary and Joseph, they equated the innkeeper with Herod. Like, well, he deserves the same punishment. Why wouldn't he find a pregnant woman's space somewhere?

Why can't he help them better than a trough for baby Jesus? And so just their emphatic feelings of injustice being done. I don't know that I've ever thought about the innkeeper in that way ever. - Yeah, yeah. - So that was one of them. And then the second one was Gladys, the youngest Herdman.

Her portrayal of the angel coming to the shepherds, she just takes this stance of her legs split apart, her fist on her hips. And she goes, hey, the shepherd was born. And she just says it in that country accent and just tries to get everybody's attention and just doesn't say it with the hallelujah chorus in the background.

- Right, right. - He's like, yeah, this is very important. Pay attention. Listen to me. - Yeah, it's so funny that these kids who never really knew the story treat it like it is a real story about real people who are doing real things for real reasons. And that is how the people are able to view the story at this different pageant than they ever expected it.

I think sometimes we are so used to the Christmas story. And it's just a story. It's sort of like a fairy tale. It's just a story that we hear. And we're so familiar with it. It can go through our minds without really touching our heart sometimes until we're moved to see it like the Herdmans did.

It is a real story about real people doing things that really happened. And so they would have real emotions and real problems. And so to me, that was a huge eye-opening experience. The Herdmans are hearing the story for the first time. And so they say things like, what kind of a cheap king brings oil for a brand new baby as a present?

That's a dumb present. And so they're thinking, what would be best in this situation? Or how might people really act in this situation? Or how would they feel? Or what does it mean? And I think that would be a good thing for us all to remember, too. I want to know, some of you have probably read this multiple times.

And maybe you first read it when you were a kid. Or you had it read aloud to you when you were a young person. Can you remember what was the takeaway for you the first time you read it? And if you read it before, we're now all moms. And so we probably read this a little differently.

We see these kids from a different perspective. We see having to inherit this Christmas pageant director job way differently than we probably did as a child. What was the big message for you the first time you read it? And is it any different? Do you have a different take on it now?

Deb, what about you? What's the takeaway message for you? And has it always been the same takeaway? It's interesting. I actually never heard of this book until I saw it in the CC curriculum. Isn't that funny? And so it was a delight to introduce this, not just to my children, but to myself.

And so the first time that I read it, I cried. I saw it in the movie, and I cried. And my kids do not cry when they reread this. But I do think it's fascinating to just kind of step back, because they'll have memories of this in their childhood.

And I'll be interested to see how it hits them differently as they become parents. But I think that as a parent reading it for the first time, the beauty of Imogene's reaction and her willingness to see Christ for the first time, I think that it just held so much beauty for me.

But I don't have the contrast of my childhood to compare it to. Babs, what about you? What was the takeaway, the big message for you? Because you did encounter this book as a kid, as a young person. And then now, as an adult, is the takeaway different? Do you see it differently?

I don't think I had a very good takeaway when I was a kid. Because we read it, you know, to do the play at church. And I think I was just excited that I wasn't a herdsman. I got to play an adult. And I think that was really my focus.

But I don't really think I got the message. And so watching the movie, and then I went back and reread the book, I think that there's two big things that really stood out to me. And I do think it's because of the movie, because when it's portrayed on a big screen, it's just easier to see sometimes, is embarrassingly, like, I think I saw myself in some of those church people who were critical.

And so because there were a couple of ladies in the movie, and they gathered around the lady that broke her foot. And so they were like, yeah, you shouldn't let them be in the play. And this is the reason. And all these reasons were so superficial. And I was just like, oh, did we do that?

Like, we probably do. And then the other thing, too, was just realizing that not everybody knows the Christmas story. And that even now, I mean, 2024, there are still people who don't know the Christmas story like we do. And so I love those questions that the herdsmen's have, because I was thinking, I never thought of that.

So I think just being sensitive to that fact, and then really convicting me to say, well, you need to be going out and telling people then. If you know there's people out there who don't know this Christmas story and what Jesus did for us, then we should be going out there and sharing that message.

That's great. That's great. Jennifer, what about you? What do you think is the big takeaway? I love what you offered to us as some good ways to talk about the message of the movie with your kids. That's one way to make sure that your kids who hear it when they're little don't miss the point.

Yeah, I'm like Deb. I never heard of this until my son was in Challenge One. And so I don't have any experience with it outside of that. But I think there's just so many takeaways. You can look at each character and have a takeaway from just that character. So it's really hard to pick one.

But I think looking at the church, the church that was the members in the movie or in the book, I felt like the movie did a really excellent job. Sometimes they veer way off. I did not feel that way. And so if we look at it from a church body perspective, I think one of the messages is that, number one, how are we perceived from outside people?

Why had these children never felt like they could come before? And it was this simple-- it wasn't an invitation. They did not come because they were invited. They came because the little boy was like, well, you can take my snacks. That's fine. I get plenty of snacks. I don't need that.

And even though what he said wasn't true, they didn't come because they were invited. So how much sooner could they have heard that and experienced that had they have been invited rather than turned away? And so as a church body, just that reflection on, are we as inviting as we think we are?

Are we really doing the right thing? Are there people-- even within my own home, my kids have heard the story. Do they really grasp it? Do I really grasp it? I think Babs was saying some of those questions she hadn't thought of. And I felt the same way. I was like, man, sometimes I just take things at face value.

And some of the questions that were asked through the story I had never thought about. And so I'm certain that my kids probably haven't either. So how much understanding-- or how much of a deeper understanding can we start to dive into as a family and then be able to tell others and invite others in?

Are we really doing a good job of that? That is so good. And listeners, that is what makes this book a great read aloud for your family and this movie a great movie to see with your family. It's really relatable. People of all ages are going to enjoy it.

It's very entertaining. But there's a message for us. And it's a great prompt for re-examining the Christmas story, and it's a great prompt for re-examining our community and the responsibility we have to share the greatest story we've known with other people. I want to give every one of you all a chance to say one more great thing about the movie, or to tell a funny part, or something that you love, or the reason that you're going to take somebody else to the movie.

So Jamie, I'll let you be first. And then Jennifer, I'll let you be next, because y'all had to go last time. So Jamie, what's your final encouragement to people who are going to encounter this story this year? Yeah, I think we've said it in multiple ways. But the thing that just keeps being brought back to me is how much being raised in a Christian home that I missed those details that the Herdmans were able to bring out.

I felt like I was somewhat watching a challenge class while I was in the movie theater, listening to all their questions. Like, oh, that's a definition question. Or they're naming, they're attending, now they're storytelling, and just going through all the 15 skills. But just back to, wow, there are details that I just took for granted that I understood that maybe I should have dug deeper and should to know more about my Savior.

Oh, that's really good, Jamie. All right, Jennifer, one last thing. You sure we don't have two more hours? I know, we could. I think we all enjoyed it enough that we could talk a long time about it. I think my takeaway would be, or my suggestion, I guess, would be, I hope that people invite people outside of your circle to the movie.

Because what a great way to start a conversation with somebody who thinks that they're just going to watch a cute movie. And so I really hope that the movie does a great job of bringing others into the church, as well. And we can do that by inviting people outside of just our little bubble and opening that conversation.

So I hope that I do a better job myself of reaching outside of my comfort zone and my little protective bubble of people. And just do a better job of reaching out to people who are like the Herdmans and digging into a need that they may have that I'm overlooking.

Yeah, yeah, that's beautiful. I mean, who knows, somebody's life may be changed, just like Emma Jean's was. All right, Babs. So something that I think is a takeaway for me-- and I was thinking about this earlier. I don't know if it's the biggest takeaway, but it's just something that we haven't talked about-- is that the Herdmans research their parts.

They went to the library and they researched their parts. And it made me think, do I really spend time in the Bible, like digging in and researching? Because we talked about this yesterday at church. It was funny about how there's so many things we can learn about God just by reading any scripture, right?

You just pick any scripture and you can learn that He's a creator, or that He's loving, or that He's omnipresent, right, and all the things. And so I was thinking, I need to spend more time like digging into the Word and researching the attributes of God, or maybe the disciples, or Jesus.

And so I feel like we don't maybe always do that. Because we're talking about this, we don't get a reward for like digging in. We get a reward for like, oh, I read through the Bible in a year, right? There's no accolade, if that's what we're looking for, to say, oh, I really dug into this book of the Bible this year, or whatever.

And so I think that's a goal that I want to have is these little kids research their part. And what they were really doing is like digging in and trying to find as much as they could out about these people. And if we could do that with the scripture that God has given us, I think it will make a big difference in our lives.

That's a great encouragement. All right, Deb, last chance to tell us to say a takeaway. I think as I'm listening to everyone, it definitely makes me want to refocus on this Advent season coming up and really ponder the story more. But mixed with that, I think another standout moment for me was that when Charlie, the little brother, said they had to go up in front of their Sunday school class and say what they like most about church.

And everybody's giving their cute little Jesus answers. And he said what everyone was thinking, but no one would ever dare say aloud, which is he said, I like Sunday school because the herdman's aren't here. And I think the whole point of the book is that the herdman's were supposed to be there.

And that as we're entering the Advent season, it's saying the people who weren't supposed to be at the manger were the ones who were, the shepherds, right? The lowly, they're in that impoverished place. And the Son of God is being born in a manger. And I think the whole point of this Advent season is to remember that it's a change of heart of the ones that who aren't supposed to be there actually are the ones who are supposed to be there, and just remembering that this Advent season.

That is beautiful. The story is for all of us, and we are all supposed to be here. So bring somebody. Bring somebody to hear the story. Bring somebody to meet the Lord this Advent season. Thank you guys so much for encouraging our listeners to embrace this story. And guys, we actually, I would love it if you would have this as a read aloud for your families.

But this week, we are actually advocating that you go see the movie. So this movie is at theaters now. I saw it. I saw it on the marquee just yesterday. So the best Christmas pageant ever movie is out now. And we encourage you to take your families, to have some discussion with your families, to bring your community.

It'd be a great community outreach or community fellowship. But like my friends have said, bring somebody outside of your circle so that maybe they can see in the treatment that the movie gives the Christmas pageant, the Christmas story. They can get some of their questions answered too. All right, guys.

Thank you, Babs and Jamie and Deb and Jennifer. Thank you so much for being with me today. I really appreciate y'all. Thank you, Lisa. Thanks, everyone. Yeah, thank you for having us. It was so good. Thank you. Listeners, I'll see you next week. Bye. you you