(upbeat music) - Our host of the "Everyday Educator" podcast, Lisa Bailey, has chosen a special episode for you to enjoy. Thanks for listening. And as always, we hope that you continue to encourage one another, learn together, and ponder the delights and challenges that make homeschooling the adventure of a lifetime.

- You know, that was sometimes, frankly, one of the most bittersweet parts of my children growing up was realizing that there need to be boundaries as they grow about how much I tell them to do, how much I'm in charge. And that boundary needs to kind of, it starts to wiggle.

- Hey, I'm Delise. - And I'm Jenny. We know that parenting comes in seasons and even the smallest ones deserve a happy dance. - Join us as we chat with moms in every stage of the parenting journey, fixing our eyes on Jesus each step of the way. - This is "Blessings and Motherhood" because we believe that you can hold tissues and confetti at the same time.

- Hey guys, welcome back to another episode of "Blessings and Motherhood." Today, we are super excited to get to talk with Lisa Bailey. - Yeah, Lisa Bailey has been working with Classical Conversations for a very long time. And if you are not a homeschooling mom, I want you to pause.

Do not stop the episode. The other really huge and exciting aspect of this conversation we're about to have with her is actually that she's a grandmother. Lisa drops so many beautiful nuggets about being a parent, about living in the moment, about regrets, or even things that the Lord has taught her over the years.

And one of my favorite things that she shares is her grandparent name. We will not spoil it for you, but you're gonna wanna listen, even if it's just for a little idea for the future. - It is amazing, you guys. Definitely, don't stop. Don't stop the episode, just keep going.

It's awesome. - Yeah. - Yeah, so without further ado, here is our conversation with Lisa. - All right, everybody, so we are so excited to have Lisa Bailey here on the podcast today. Lisa, for our listeners who do not know you, and you are a legend among Classical Conversations people.

- Yes. - Introduce yourself, tell us about your season of life. What's going on with you these days? - Well, I don't know if I should be flattered or chagrined to be called a legend. (all laughing) - It's a good thing. - I will tell you that I've been around Classical Conversations for a long time, so maybe that affords me legend status.

My family found Classical Conversations in 2004, when my daughters were fifth grade and second grade, and my husband and I had been homeschooling them the whole time and had been trying to recreate what I now know as a classical education on our own. And we were doing okay, but as I looked ahead to the high school, the junior high and high school years, I was getting a little nervous about how well I could do that.

And when I was introduced to CC by some friends who had older students, I was mesmerized by the plan that I saw laid out. And really the challenge program is what hooked my husband. What hooked me was somebody had done some really good planning. It was everything that I had wanted my girls to know in the way I was excited to teach them.

And so we jumped in at that level. I started tutoring Challenge B 'cause I actually like junior high students. And I loved mock trial. I loved doing logic with them. And I've sat in a lot of seats on the CC bus through the years. I've been in some state management leadership roles.

I've served as a Challenge B program manager. Most recently, well, I worked on practicum for years. And so some people know me from kind of creating the practicums and then training the speakers for those events for about seven years. And most recently I have come to rest in the curriculum development team where I am blessed to get paid real money to read and write and encourage parents.

And I have spent most of the last year working on a brand new piece of curriculum that you guys have talked about before, Scribblers at Home, Recipes from Lifelong Learners, which actually is the perfect place for me because I get to encourage parents and play with little kids and develop tools that I know are gonna bless families.

And that's really what's close to my heart after all these years with CC. - I love that. And you also have another new role if my memory serves me right, right? Lisa, you have just become a grandmother, right? - Yes, I've just become a grandmother, our first grandson. My husband, David and I have two lovely daughters and now we have one handsome grandson who was born in June and we have really relished our new roles as grandparents.

It's been great. - That's awesome. It's funny how the Lord brought you right now to the role of writing Scribblers, which is for the younger children. And He has given you one to just start fresh with, right? As a grandparent. - I know, I just think he probably was laughing the whole time because I started working on Scribblers before Gideon was a twinkle in his parents' eye.

And so it is really cool to me to think that I had a hand in something that I know we'll be using with him. - That is awesome. Well, tell me a little bit about when you first found out you were going to be a grandmother. Like what came into your mind?

What were you excited about? What were you maybe fearful about? What were your thoughts? - Well, I was super excited to be a grandmother. I have friends who have welcomed grandchildren and they have said to me, "Oh, this is the best." You thought you loved your children unconditionally, but just wait until you have a grandchild.

And so I was really, I'll be really frank with you guys. Through the years, the Lord has taught me so much as I have worked with classical conversations and as I've been blessed to work with parents. You know, a lot of people say, "Oh, you've taught me so much." Or even you guys have said, "Oh, I know that there are things that we want to know from you," but I feel like God did such a work in me and in my understanding in my life.

And so I feel like, and I've told people before at practicums who come up and say, "Oh, can't you just come home and homeschool my children? I wish my children had you as a mom." And it makes me, it humbles me, but it also makes me laugh. And I look at them and I say, "Hey, you know what?

My children wish they had had this me as a mom too. They did not have this me because the Lord has done such a work as far as me understanding Him, understanding myself, understanding education, understanding what He's trying to communicate to me and to the rest of us through His creation, through His word and through the people He puts in our paths." So what I was most excited about is a do-over, a chance to pour into a new little life kind of in a more relaxed way, okay?

Knowing that, "Oh, you know what? I'm not going to do that perfectly and that's going to be okay. And actually that's going to be better because I won't be setting myself and this child up with unreal expectations." And so I was really excited to be a grandmother because it gave me an opportunity to enjoy this little person, probably in a way I was too uptight to enjoy my own girls at points in their childhood.

- I want to pause right there and just say it again for myself and all the people in the back. The fact that you saw or can see now that you were too uptight to enjoy your kids. I mean, there are little whispers in my head and I'm even thinking about just my day yesterday, right?

And how, you know, you want to be a good mom and I think a lot of it comes from fear, but the kind of fear that like you are trying to be a good steward of your child's life. You're trying to be faithful to the Lord. So you want your kid to have good character.

So you're trying to be on your pees and pews. They don't develop these habits that they're like, "Mom, why didn't you help me?" You know, whether it's nose picking or being rude, you know, just all the things. But I think at the end of the day, there is a sense that we have that might not be from God, that it's all on us.

And so we end up, instead of being intentional or instead of being faithful, which is what we want, we end up being uptight. - Right. - And we suck the joy out of the moment. - We do, and I think that another huge fallacy that Satan uses, or I should just say, he used it in my life.

I fell prey to believing that there was one right way to do almost all the things I did with and for my girls. And that if I did not find that one right way, that, okay, they weren't gonna be derailed totally, but they would suffer for it. And we would suffer for it.

And it wouldn't be as good as it, the experience would not be as good as it could be. And so I spent, not all my time, I truly did enjoy my girls a lot. And we loved homeschooling, but I do know that I was so focused on doing things right that sometimes we did not have as much fun enjoying one another as we should have.

- That's such a good point. And that's such a huge thing. I think about that catechism that says, what is the chief end of man? What is it to worship God? - To glorify God and enjoy Him forever. - There you go. And I think there's a part of that that we mirror for our kids.

Like when I think about how parenting is modeling the heart of God for your kids, the enjoying one another piece is so big. And I don't know, I'm glad that you said that 'cause I feel like I'm gonna be thinking about that for a week. So let's talk about how, and I know you're very much at the beginning of it, how old is your grandson right now?

- He is almost four months old. - Okay, so he's a little nugget, probably just starting to smile and stuff. Tell us a little bit though, in your short journey so far, how has being a grandmother changed you? How has it changed your perspective? You kind of hit a little bit on it just now, but what are the things that you feel God is kind of churning in your heart and using being a grandma to do in your life?

- Hmm, I think that He is using Gideon to help me focus on simple joy and simple pleasures. He is teaching me with Gideon to enjoy all of the moments and not wish any one of them away. You guys are still young moms. And so I can say this to you and you'll remember, there were times when my girls were newborns that I thought, okay, this is never going to get easier.

This is not, this piece is never going away. It will never be quote unquote, right again. And now of course, I realized that's not true. And the sleepless night doesn't last forever. And the stage where your baby or your small child does this thing that, you know, it's cute the first time and then it's just annoying.

That doesn't last forever. And so Gideon, having him has helped me be just really open to living more in the moment. When I was a mom of a newborn, I remember saying to myself, well, when she sleeps through the night, it will be better. Well, when we get on a better nursing schedule, it will be better.

Well, when, you know, when she doesn't throw her spoon or when she will eat what I fix or when she stops asking so many questions, and by the way, that never happened. But you just keep, I just found myself so often living for the next moment instead of living in the moment that the Lord had provided.

That with Gideon, when my daughter brought him home, I stayed with them for a couple of nights and she was like, oh, I just really need a break. And I'm like, I'm fine. I can stay up with him. I can, it will be my pleasure to spend some of these in the middle of the night hours with him, just looking at him because he's changing every minute.

And that was a gift. And I think that is a perspective that I'm happy to have now that I didn't have when my girls were little. - Yeah, I bet your girls are happy or your daughter is happy to have that as well because you're saying that that's a gift for that time with Gideon.

But I know she sees that as a blessing to her that you are giving to her, right? - Yeah, I hope so, I think so, yeah. - I would have loved that for sure. And I just keep thinking like, this is what us young moms need to hear. And it's so uplifting for that reminder to enjoy the simple joys because we can get, as you said, caught up in things like that.

And we forget that we can enjoy the seasons even if they're hard. - Yes, and that there's more than one right answer for things. I thought, if you don't, if the girl, if I had a schedule in my mind or a sense of what would be best for this baby and it didn't happen, it just kind of threw me for a loop and I felt like, I don't know what to do.

And so the answer with the baby, they don't perform on command. And I know that now, but if I could just have looked back and said, you know what? Whatever is happening is what is supposed to happen. So let's just enjoy that thing instead of spending my time thinking, why is this not going like I expected it to go?

Just enjoy what God has given you. There's beauty in that, even if it's not what I expected to see. - That's great. - Yeah, it can also bestow that sense of wonder in you as a grandparent and as a mom and even for our kids just to say, okay, I wasn't expecting that, but man, look at how God can perform and look at what God has created in this moment and just His mightiness.

I don't know, that's what it makes me think of. - It's amazing. - And we're so excited about this new Scribblers. Let's go back to that real quick. You've written the Scribblers program for Classical Conversations. It's meant for the younger kids. So tell us a little bit about it.

- Well, it was really born out of Lee's desire, Lee Borton's desire to help young families develop good learning habits, to find a good rhythm. And as she talked to me a little bit about the project before we ever wrote the first activity or developed the first chart, it really resonated with me in that there were so many things that I wish I had known when I started homeschooling.

So many things that I learned along the way and I got better at and we got more comfortable at and it was all great. But what if I had known at the beginning that developing the relationships between family members was key? It was so key that it was way more important than what reading curriculum I picked.

What if I had realized at the beginning that there were simple rhythms that we could start when the kids were really young that would become so much a part of our family's DNA that it would become just what we do. Like learning is just what we do. Reading good books is just what we do.

Talking about big ideas is just what we do. And we don't even notice it. Going outside to look at what God's made and then asking questions about it and looking in the scripture and asking other people what they know about the world. If I had known at the beginning that that was the kind of thing that would change the world for me and my kids and my husband, I would have done that in a skinny minute.

But I didn't know. I was so set at the beginning that I had to pick the right reading curriculum, that we needed to spend X amount of time doing math. I needed to be sure that we did handwriting and we did it as long as we were supposed to and at the right time, they became good spellers and that we learned about this.

I was so worried about all of that stuff that a lot of times in the early years, I would get to the end of the day and think, well, we didn't finish the math lesson and she still can't read and we didn't even do a science experiment and art is just like what they do when I'm not looking.

If I had had somebody to tell me, hey, take a deep breath. You prayed together with your girls. You read together. You played outside together. You fixed lunch for daddy. You explored the ladybugs on the back steps. You prayed, played, read, explored and served. That was a good day.

You did a good thing and y'all established really good rhythms. That was a good homeschool day. And so "Scribblers" was really written to encourage parents that the things their children do naturally are enough that parents can intentionally harvest the habits of praying, playing, reading, exploring and serving and begin to build habits that turn into the learning that the children will do, not just till they graduate from high school, but forever.

And just helping parents connect this intentional play with the habits that are gonna help their high schoolers write a paper or do a chemistry lab or work with the quadratic equation. Really and truly, I can remember thinking, I don't know how we're gonna get there, but I'll worry about it then.

But "Scribblers" actually shows parents, look, you think your children are just clapping the rhythm of their name, but they are actually learning that words have syllables, that words have parts and that you can, and that is gonna help them read and spell and take a foreign language. And so for parents to think that this intentional play is going somewhere is huge.

- Yeah, yeah, I think a lot of us moms need to hear that, especially as homeschooling moms. I love when you said, it's not always about choosing the right curriculum. It's really the relationships when they're younger, because that is gonna help high schoolers when they are doing those quadratic equations when they're older, because they're gonna have that relationship that they can trust you, that you are for them and that you care about their education.

So you're not making them do all of these math problems because you're being a mean mom or just to do it. They have that trust with you because you started at such a young age focused in on the relationships and not how many worksheets do we get done today or do I have the right program to teach them correctly?

And that's what "Scribblers" is about, right? - Right, it's about being with your kids. It is being with your kids, doing these fun things together because really a lot of us, I mean, I reclaimed such a huge swath of my education when I started teaching my kids at home.

There are things that as parents, you're gonna learn by doing the "Scribblers" activity. You're gonna learn stuff about each of the strands. You're gonna learn things about science and history and phonics and all of that, but you're also gonna learn about your child and how your child learns and how they look at the world and what they need from you at any given moment.

- Yeah, I've had a chance to look through the "Scribblers" program, actually. I've got one of the early books of it. - Phototypes, yeah. - And it's been so fun to look through with my kids. I'll be honest, I have not tried one of them yet. - That's okay.

- But I loved how encompassing they are. There's some activities that you can do inside. I think there was a baking activity that really sparked my interest 'cause I'm a baker, but then you had them going outside or you have them going to different rooms of the house and making these memories with your kids, but letting them learn, and they don't even know it.

They're not gonna know that they're learning math while we're baking and measuring out things. They're just gonna say, "Ooh, I'm making cookies with mommy," or something like that, and that's what I loved when I was going through the prototype. - Hey, guys, we wanna take a break from the show to tell you about the Words Aptly Spoken Book Club by Classical Conversations, and it's actually hosted by our founder, Leigh Bortens.

- Yeah, so she hosts this book club online every Thursday at 7 p.m. Eastern Standard Time, and each week's meeting centers around a discussion on a new book that includes Classical Conversations exclusives, like selections from the Copper Lodge Library series, as well as some of the literary classics that we all know and love, like The Adventures of Tom Sawyer and Mere Christianity.

- Yeah, so if you'd like to engage in thought-provoking conversations on the power held by words, ideas, and stories with other homeschoolers, parents, and lovers of books, then this book club is definitely for you. - Yeah, so if you guys are interested, you can go visit leighbortens.com to find a link to join in live at the Words Aptly Spoken Book Club.

Remember, it's Thursdays at 7 p.m. Eastern Standard Time, and you can go to leighbortens.com. - Let's get back to the show. So just really, again, I hear you saying so much about just instilling that sense of wonder in learning, and even internalizing that ourselves as parents, as we model that, and just reawakening that hunger to learn for ourselves.

And so this is not gonna be a clean segue. I'll just go ahead and let you know, Lisa. (laughing) So, you know, I love to hear about that. And you guys, if you are interested, absolutely go and look it up. I'll give you the information about that at the end.

But as I just think about the season of life that you're in right now, again, as a grandmother, your season with your girls has passed. Now you've got a little boy, which is different, too, which is a new, fun thing. And I'm thinking about boundaries, actually, and just kind of wondering, because most of our listeners are in my seat and Jenny's seat when we're in our first round.

But for you, as the grandmother, I'm sure that you have things that you may have wished, you know, the grandmother had these boundaries, or boundaries that you may have wished that you set personally for your family. And I think this is such an area where we can glean from you and your years of experience.

So can you talk to us a little bit about the boundaries that you maybe are setting for yourself as a grandmother, or boundaries that you would encourage young moms to set for their families as they navigate that new season of life? 'Cause it's very different when you go from being just you and your spouse to you and your kids and your extended family.

There's a lot in the mix. So can you just talk to us a little bit about that? - It's so interesting. I've thought a lot about this. Partly because I always have a plan. I always have a plan. I always like to, I sort of like to be in charge, and my kids and my husband probably roll their eyes and say, "Sort of." (laughing) Like when we go on vacation, when we go to Disney World, I make the plan.

And they're just happy. You know, like what are we gonna do first? And where are we headed first? And as the girls grew up, you know, that was sometimes, frankly, one of the most bittersweet parts of my children growing up was realizing that there need to be boundaries as they grow about how much I tell them to do, how much I'm in charge.

And that boundary needs to kind of, it starts to wiggle, right? So as my girls got older, I had to give them freedom. Even if I knew what they, quote unquote, "ought to do," sometimes I needed to let them figure out what they would do, and then see maybe, "Hey, that was not the best thing.

"I ought to have done this." But they needed to figure that out on their own. And as they went to college, I learned to say less and listen more. I learned to ask a lot of questions and not given an opinion unless they asked me for it. You have no idea.

You have no idea how hard that was. And ironically enough, texting saved me a lot of times because if my daughter had told me some of the things she told me on the phone and I had to react in the moment, it would not have been wise. But I could get a text about it and think, "Oh my goodness!" But I didn't say that because it was a text.

And I could put it down, walk away, take a walk, reframe it, calm down. And then a lot of times what happened was I could ask a clarifying question because I had taken the deep breath. And sometimes the clarifying question made it clear that I had nothing to worry about, that my child was actually just extending an opportunity to discuss an idea, not telling me a decision, not communicating a decision she had made.

And so I learned that asking questions and waiting for the answer instead of giving the answer was the best way to go. And so as a grandmother, I've really tried to do that. I have been, I have eagerly waited in the wings for my daughter to need me, right?

To ask a question, I will always take her calls and texts before almost anybody else's. But I have tried to not rush in and say, "Well, when you were little, daddy and I did this," or, "I think you should do this," or clearly, or just act like the plan that I made was obviously the right one.

Why wouldn't you do that too? I have tried to hang back and make lots of supportive noises and tell her when she is doing an amazing job. And I look at her and say, "You are so much better at this than I was. "You are so much more relaxed, "and that is helping you and helping your son "so much for you to relax." So I try to give lots of encouragement and lots of feedback, but not lots of opinions until they're sought.

That's a boundary I'm trying to hold. - That's good. - That is really good wisdom. I love how you just said supportive noises. 'Cause that can come, you're right, that can come in so many different ways. You can use words, but sometimes it is, you just need to make the noise.

And us daughters, we get it. We know our moms enough to be like, "Oh, she's not liking that. "Do I need to rethink something?" And it's exactly what you said. It's a noise. - I love it. We need to release a rehearsal pack. Supporting noises for mom. - Mm-hmm.

- Yeah. - Oh, that's right. How funny that would be. - I love that you're just talking about encouraging your daughters, because you still are their mom, and now you are a grandmother to their little ones. And it is a little bit of a different role. It's not as, you know, with your grandkids, it's not as authoritative, but it doesn't mean it's any less significant, or you're not as important as a grandparent, right?

I think the Bible tells us, you know, generation upon generation, you embark your wisdom, you tell the testimonies of what you have lived through, so that they may grow in their faith, most importantly, but also just as followers of Jesus. - Yeah, I love that. - So as a grandparent, grandma, what are you called, Lisa?

Nana? Grandma? - No, my husband, I am Lollie. - Lollie. Oh, that's cute. - Is he pop? - My husband is pop, and so the grandkids will come to Lollipop's house. - Oh my goodness. - That's so cute. - I might have to steal that. - Take notes, everybody take notes.

- Lollie and Pop. - You're free to steal that. - That's the best. And so that's really fun, that fits our personalities pretty well too. - It really does. All right, well, as Lollie, what is your biggest prayer for your grandkids? And then even as for your daughters, what is your biggest prayer as they are becoming parents?

Twofold. - For my grandson, I pray that he grows up to know God fully and to know how loved he is by God the Father. I pray that he feels the love of God and that it transforms him into the man that God has already designed him to be.

And that's my prayer for him. The corollary of course is that I pray he feels the love and support of his family. And for my girls, I pray that they will be moms, that they will understand the heart of God more deeply as they become parents. I know that that was really true for me.

I mean, I never really understood God the Father until I had a child of my own to love and to watch over. I pray that my girls never lose sight of the fact that God will entrust to them precious treasures that are theirs to shepherd, but not to own.

That those babies will always belong to the Lord and he loans them out to us and allows us to shepherd them. I think that's what I want them to know. - Yeah, amen, that's beautiful. We can all take a note from that book. So as we close out, you know, just thinking over your years, you've got many years to come and many years under your belt, what advice would you wanna give to moms who are heading into maybe a new season?

A mom who sees something on the horizon is probably trying to either brace herself or prepare her heart for, you know, what God's got. Sometimes it's a little of both, but what would you say to us mommas as we're transitioning in life? - I think what I would say is make everything a serious matter of prayer, but don't take anything including yourself too seriously.

You know, take it all to the Lord and give it to him and do your best to leave it there. I mean, we're all good at taking it to the Lord, but sometimes we carry it away with us. Try to leave those big perplexities of life with the Lord, but then don't take yourself so seriously.

Nobody is expect, nobody but you is expecting you to be perfect and a perfect house is not a lot of fun to live in. - Amen. - So, so get dirty, make a mess, splash out of the bathtub, you know, track in on the kitchen floor, experience life at the end of the day, don't leave too much in the I wish I had pile and have more in the I'm glad I pile.

- That's beautiful, I love it. Well, thank you so much for chatting with us today, Lisa. I still, I'm in that group that was like, I just want you to come parent my children. I am definitely in that group. - Nope, nobody loves your little ones like you do, and so you really are the very best one to love and be with your children.

- Absolutely, thank you all for letting me come. I have enjoyed this immensely. - What an amazing conversation. Lisa always has just so many good little nuggets of wisdom and encouragement. I think my favorite thing she reminded me though, as a mom with a lot of little kids, is to find joy in just the simple things.

And we get so caught up in, oh, I don't want to mess my kid up, or I don't want to do this and ruin their lives. And in reality, we're not going to ruin their lives, right? God has got them in His hands. And what a great reminder that was for Lisa.

It just kind of lets me take a deep breath and say, you know what? God has got them, you know? I'm not gonna mess anything up. Can I do things better? Potentially, yes, but we can't be fearful to fail. And I think that's what any mom in any stage really can hear and just grab onto.

- Absolutely, so guys, I hope that you enjoyed this conversation. And if you did, we would love it if you would share this with another friend who's a mom that you know could just use a little pep talk today, send this episode to them. And if you're not already subscribed, we'd love it if you would hit the subscribe button.

It's mostly for you, so that you don't miss the next episode. It helps you remember when the podcast is coming out. And if you're not already on social media with us, go and follow us @BlessingsInMotherhood. That's how we keep the conversation going. We encourage each other during the week.

We share things together and really just continue to point you guys to community. And if you are interested in checking out the Scribblers curriculum, you can find that at classicalconversations.com/scribblers-resource Thanks again for listening and we'll see you next time. - Bye guys. (upbeat music) (upbeat music continues) (upbeat music continues) (upbeat music continues) (upbeat music continues) (upbeat music) (upbeat music)