(upbeat music) - Welcome friends to this episode of the "Everyday Educator" podcast. I'm your host, Lisa Bailey, and I'm excited to spend some time with you today as we encourage one another, learn together, and ponder the delights and challenges that make homeschooling the adventure of a lifetime. Whether you're just considering this homeschooling possibility or deep into the daily delight of family learning, I believe you'll enjoy thinking along with us.

But don't forget, although this online community is awesome, you'll find even closer support in a local CC community. So go to classicalconversations.com and find a community near you today. Well, listeners, I'm excited today about our topic. Our foundations year has drawn to a close, our challenge year is quickly coming to an end, and all the fun end of the year specials are running through our community.

I want us to talk today for a few minutes about memory masters. Many of you have kids who are in the middle of the memory master proofing process, but a lot of you are in community with these memory master people, and you don't really know what the big deal is.

Or maybe your child has heard about Memory Master, and they wonder if it's something they want to do. And they ask you about it, and you think, I don't really know a lot about this. I don't know if it's for our family. I'm not sure how you get started.

I don't know if it's too late. How would I go about finding more information? So today, I have two great guests with us. I have Kelly Wilt with us today. She has been immersed in the memory master world for a long time. You may know her voice and her face as the emcee of the National Memory Master Competition.

So Kelly is gonna talk to us a little bit about memory master in general, and some of her experiences with National Memory Master. But I have a real treat today. I'm gonna get Kelly to introduce the new National Memory Master Liaison, Elise DeYoung. And you're gonna get to know Elise, and we're gonna answer all of your questions, maybe.

We're going to just encourage you, mamas and daddies and grandmas and students to realize that memory masters are made, not born. So everybody has the opportunity to become a memory master. Kelly, I'm so glad to have you today. Thank you for coming to share your expertise with us. - Oh, friend, you know I love foundations and discussing anything foundations.

And memory master is simply a celebration of what our students have learned and what a delight to celebrate these good things. And it is a very good thing also that I get to introduce you to my new friend, Elise DeYoung today. Elise is our new liaison for the National Memory Master Competition.

And Elise has an advantage over me, Lisa. I am merely the mother of a memory master, but Elise actually graduated through Challenge 4 and in her foundation's years, she was a memory master herself. - Oh, that is so cool. - So I am excited to introduce her to you here today and to our listeners so that they can meet her and they can hear her perspective on the National Memory Master Competition.

- That is so exciting. Elise, let me ask you this. Do you remember anything about your memory master competition? - Thank you for asking, thank you for having me on. I really appreciate it. I'm really glad. - I was thinking back through this week as I was preparing for this episode and things definitely started to come back.

But the thing that really stuck with me all these years was the time that I spent with my mom. And I want to encourage families who are thinking about doing this because it is so worth it. Just for that fact, I can remember us going through all the songs and the facts in the car, at the grocery store.

We used to drive and spend a lot of time at my dad's office and that was always lots and lots of fun. So just our whole family together working on this. And that is truly what I took away the most and what I would like to encourage parents with also.

- That is the most beautiful thing. I love that. And I really think, Elise, that's a big encouragement to all of the families that are listening. National Memory Master is, like Kelly said, a celebration of all the things that our students have learned. But Elise, you've just reminded us that all of what we do as homeschoolers is a celebration of the relationships that God has led us to develop more deeply with our children and children with their parents as we become learners together.

So I really appreciate that. Thank you for sharing it. All right, Kelly, let's get all the grammar of Memory Master laid out 'cause I suspect we may have some listeners who don't really know what Memory Master is all about. And I wanna be sure that we all are talking about the same things.

And so we want to give people a short definition so that as we continue our conversation, people can follow it and not think, now, wait, what is that? Okay. Let's start at the very beginning. What do we mean by memorize? Okay, so if you say to me that a Memory Master has to memorize all of the foundation's memory work from this year, do you mean like word for word, verbatim, or kind of paraphrased or with help?

Or what does memorize mean? I think this is a really great question because it can mean different things to different people. And it can mean different things outside of this context as far as recalling information. So for our Memory Masters in community, when we say memorize, basically what we're saying is they need to be able to recite effortlessly the information because we have seven different subjects of memory work and they are asked to recite these subjects in different ways to demonstrate their mastery over the content.

So I would say that probably would be the best definition that I could give, that they could recite in a way that is effortless, that is easy, that they recall easily those facts that they've put to mind. That is awesome. Okay, now you did say that we, that they are able to recall and recite that information in different ways depending on the area.

So like, what about maps? In Memory Master, are they drawing a map while you sit there and watch them? Are they pointing to stuff on a drawn map? Are they naming locations? What about that? Yeah, it's interesting to think through the different subjects and how do we express mastery in geography as opposed to reciting a fact.

So in geography, when a student is proofed, they will be asked to show me, the person would, proofing them would say, "Show me this location." So example, an example would be, "Show me the Atlantic Ocean." And so the student would look at the map and they would put their finger down where they feel they, where they have memorized the location of the Atlantic Ocean, as opposed to mixing up the response by also saying, "Tell me where, tell me what this is." And the director or the tutor or the parent or another adult, these are the four people who would be proofing this Memory Master through the process.

They would say, "Tell me what this is." And then the student would look at where their finger was pointing and would say, "Oh, that's the Atlantic Ocean." So demonstrating memory with geography is slightly different than perhaps with some of our other subjects of memory work, like history or English grammar, where the person who is doing the proofing might just simply ask the student, "Tell me about Charlemagne." Or, "Tell me about, you know, William the Conqueror." And a student would recite that information that they had memorized on that particular week in that cycle.

So for geography, it is a little different. Another subject that is slightly different is math. So just like with geography, we have a map for students to be able to utilize in math. Our parents, if our students are under the age of nine, when they go through the proofing process, they are able to skip count or recite the products of the multiplication tables that they're memorizing.

But once they get to the age of 10, they actually use a pack of multiplication flashcards, and they will look at the multiplication problem, they'll recite it, and the answer. So it's slightly different for a couple of our subjects. For the most part, it will involve the person who is doing the proofing simply asking the student the proof, which is part of the memory work, and then having them respond.

- That's good. That seems pretty clear. And I think it's really good. We recognize that different subjects may need to be proofed in different ways in order for the student to really establish their mastery. So that's really good. I know, now my girls came through foundations and memory master a really long time ago, okay?

And so I know years ago in our community, especially for really young children, there were subject matter masters instead of full memory masters. Have you ever heard of that? - I have. And I think it's a natural tendency to gravitate toward what we love first. So as children, your child may listen to the memory work and he or she may be drawn into those history songs or the timeline song.

And that may be the thing that they love that they want to sing at Thanksgiving dinner for the entire family. And so perhaps some of the other memory work isn't fully cemented yet into their memory. But that one particular subject for sure is because they delight in it and they want to share what they've memorized.

And so a subject master would be a student who perhaps had mastered some of the subjects, but not all of them, as opposed to a memory master, which would be a foundation student who could effortlessly recite the entire cycles worth of memory work. - Lovely, lovely, okay. So Elise, what's the difference between a memory master and a national memory master?

- Yeah, that is a great question. One of the major differences is that memory master takes each cycle on its own and students are mastering cycles one, two, and three individually. And a national memory master, students actually pull information from all three cycles, all at once during this competition.

And so they have worked for years and years and years to cement, like Kelly said, all of that information together. So it's kind of triple the work, but it's triple the fun also, I think. It has a large diversity from ancient civilizations to medieval all the way up to our present day in American history.

But that allows students to really get the full scope of our memory work into one competition. - Man, that is like, seriously, y'all, that is very impressive. I know when our family first found out about Classical Conversations, and we started, I think we started, the year that we got involved, we were in cycle two.

And I looked at all of this information that my children were gonna learn in that year, and I was kind of blown away. And I thought, yeah, well, we'll see. And they did it, and I was so amazed, absolutely amazed. But you're telling me that National Memory Masters, every year, they pull from all three cycles, not just the cycle that they've studied in community that year.

- Yes, that is the real trick with this. It is amazing what these kids know. Because when I share with other parents about National Memory Master, they're just simply blown away by the timeline song every time. And then as soon as you start to expand and talk about English and Latin endings and all the history and the math, it just, it absolutely floors them every time.

And it's amazing to see these kids, they really have mastered it. And it is a testament to the amazing brains that these young people have. - And it is beautiful to think that they're able to sew all those facts together into a beautiful whole. That's really amazing. Okay, y'all have talked several times.

Both of you have said things about proofing. And Kelly, you mentioned like four different people that the student would proof with. Okay, what is a proof, and who would my child proof with, and when, and how much is proofed, and how do I navigate that as a parent? - This is quite the process.

So I'm glad you asked me that question. And it's designed that way on purpose to celebrate our students, but also to protect them and to protect our families from any situations which might cause hurt, especially for our younger students who we want to love the act of memorizing. We don't want them to dread it or to see it as something negative.

We wanna celebrate all they've accomplished. So a proof in a particular cycle has four parts. The first part is proofing with a parent, which for a child, of course, is going to be the most comfortable. They're sitting with mom and dad, maybe on a sofa, and they're reciting all of their memory work from the entire cycle.

And during that proof, they actually are allowed three or fewer misses per subject. So when we think about memorizing and perfection, they're not expected to be perfect with the parent proof. They're expected to demonstrate for their parent the amount of knowledge that they've gleaned. And truthfully, as a parent at that point, based on what you observe, you need to make a judgment call about, are we ready to do this with another adult who would be the second proof?

And then also followed by the tutor of that particular child. And then finally, the director. So as a parent, you have an obligation to look at your child and say, am I comfortable moving forward in this process? Or do I need to ask myself some hard questions about, do we need to delay this one more year and just wait for a little more maturity or a little more understanding or whatever you perceive to be the need in the situation?

If your child goes through that first process at home with flying colors, and you are assured they're ready to move forward, the second proof is with another adult. So we're distancing away from the parent, maybe putting the child in a situation where there would be a little less personal comfort so that they're relying on their memory in a different environment.

And during that proof, they will also again, proof 100% of the memory work from that particular cycle. But in that proof, they're only allowed one miss per subject. So again, we're emphasizing mastery over perfection at this point. Still trying to build to that place where we know that they have completely memorized the information.

Now again, at this point, a parent should look at this proof and say, okay, we're doing well, or maybe we need to wait. If they fly through that proof and they do an outstanding job, the third proof is with the student's tutor. And again, that's 100% of the information for that particular cycle.

But in that proof with the tutor who has built a relationship with that student over the course of the year in community, they are allowed no misses at all. So at this point in this proof with the tutor, they are expected to have perfection, perfect memory over the content of that particular cycle.

And if a student passes that tutor proof, which could take two to three hours based on the amount of information proofed over the course of an entire cycle, the student would then be passed to the director of the community. And the director proof is different in several ways. One of those being that the student is not proofing 100% of the content.

The director- - 'Cause they've already done that. They've already done that. - Exactly. They've done it three times. So by the time they get to the director, it really is a celebratory proof where the director selects 25% of the content at random from that particular cycle and proofs the student, obviously with no misses.

And if a student passes that proof with no misses, then he or she is declared a memory master in community for that particular cycle. But you can see, Lisa, how each proof is protecting the heart and mind of the student which is one of the things that I think is so valuable for our students that we are encouraging a spirit of grace over this process that hopefully will encourage them if they do not pass a particular proof that they'll wanna try again.

- Exactly. It's a stretching. It gives you a stretch goal every year. I love so many things about this. Two things, especially. One, that it does provide a stretch goal for students and families every year. And so somebody who says, "I really wanna do this, "but I'm pretty sure I'm not perfect." They can still be part of this process.

- Right. - And then the other thing that I really love is that parents are in charge. I mean, CC is a wonderful, wonderful community, but we exist to support parents, not to supplant parents. And so I love it that you emphasize that at every juncture, at every part of the proofing process, parents are encouraged to decide whether they and their child should go on or whether it doesn't fit your family's mission for this year to go on.

- Exactly, exactly. - I love that. Such a good thing. Okay, so you were very clear. You answered a bunch of questions. You answered the questions of how our students are prompted to give their responses and to demonstrate their mastery. And so that was really good. And you gave us clear answers about how many mistakes are allowed, how much help is allowed at each of those parts of the thing.

And so the goal for a memory master is 100% mastery recited effortlessly in all subject areas. - Yes, that is a great definition. - I love it, I love it, I love it. Okay, so I look back and when our family got started, there was memory master at the local level, but there was no national memory master.

When did national memory master develop? - National memory master was developed in 2016. So we've been in existence for almost a decade now, which is pretty amazing to think about. And it was designed to celebrate these students who delight in the act of memory so much that they were able to memory master repeatedly.

And so as Elise said, national memory master is community memory master on steroids for our children who are supremely gifted in the art of memory. And to celebrate what they have learned in foundations and cement that knowledge before they move forward into our Challenge A program the following fall.

So it is designed specifically for those students who are in their final year of foundations and who have mastered repeatedly and who are ready to move on literally and figuratively to the next challenge in their Classical Conversations years. - Okay, so what if my family just got involved in Classical Conversations this year and I have a last year of foundation students who has really dug in and just this really clicked with them and they had no trouble memorizing and they've even gone back and were sad that they missed other cycles.

And so we've been doing the other cycles. Could that student try to become a national memory master? - So one of the requirements for national memory master is that students have successfully proved for as a memory master two years, including the one that they are in, the one that they're seeking to be a memory or a national memory master in.

So that student due to that rule would not be allowed to participate because there just needs to be at least two years of mastery prior to the competition. So that would be just a little disclaimer there, but yeah, so this competition is definitely something that students have to really look forward to and kind of anticipate and prepare for before they go.

- You know what, that's a really, and that may be a disappointment to some families, but you know what? In the spirit of celebrating the growing knowledge that our children are building through the years, I think it's a great thing that, I love what you just said, that it is something that our students can look forward to.

They look ahead to that and it becomes their own private stretch goal. It's like, okay, so now I have three more years of foundations and so I need to memory master, I need to memory master, and then I could be a national memory master. That's really cool. - What is so cool about this then is it, like you've been saying, it really gives us a chance to celebrate these students.

Like in this year's competition, we have a student who successfully proved as a memory master eight times up until this point. (laughs) - My word. - Yes, it is just amazing what these kids have done. So these, they have really been looking forward to this opportunity for years and years and years and have spent so much time preparing.

And it really shows. These kids are absolutely amazing. And so that's one of the purposes for this competition is to highlight those students who have just fallen in love with memory work. As I was thinking back on my experience, I was talking to my mom and I was like, well, when I was in foundations, I didn't even know national memory master was a thing.

And she goes, oh, I did. (laughs) And she was saying how I just didn't have that same desire and love to really get after it. And I loved proofing and I really loved Kelly, what you said before about who is proofing you and how you already have a relationship.

Because I remember sitting in that room, scared out of my mind because I'm a big perfectionist. I really wanted to do it all the way. But just looking across the table and knowing this parent, this person, this director knows me and cares about me and wants me to succeed.

And so I do not regret memory master in any capacity. It was an amazing experience. But I know there are a lot of kids out there who might be like I was, where it was a great experience. I learned so much. I learned how to memorize. But that might be my big success.

That might be their big success. And that is a big success. And so National Memory Master specifically is for those kids who just treasure this experience and who have that competitive side to them where they just want to get after it and do their very best. And that's what's so special about this competition.

I really like that. I want-- listeners, what I hope that you are hearing, because this is what I'm hearing, is that we really want to celebrate these students who have learned all of this material and they are able to recite all of this material and they will blow away your relatives at the family reunion, OK?

Yes. It is absolutely fine if your student does not have that burning desire in the belly to be a National Memory Master. In fact, it could be for anyone, but it's not for everyone. Everybody is not going to love that. Because what I hear you saying, Elise, and what I've observed, is that there are other skills involved in becoming a National Memory Master besides just the ability to memorize.

You really do have to have that fire in the belly competitive edge. And the other thing, y'all, that I have noticed, these National Memory Master candidates have to be showmen. I mean, they have to want to perform. It's not just standing up and reciting all the information. These kids like to be showmen.

Would you agree with that, having seen the competition up close? Yes, so I definitely agree with that. Here are some-- I'll give you some logistics of the competition that really showcase what you're talking about. The competition is divided up into two rounds. The first round is in the form of a memory bee, so very similar to a spelling bee.

And that really is more of the recitation. Each child goes up to the microphone one at a time and recites a fact. And then for round two, we really get into more of that rhetoric phase, that showmanship you were talking about, where they get the chance to draw and label the entire world map, which is amazing.

All in 30 minutes, no less. And it is insane. I remember in Challenge A, I also had to do that. But it took me a lot longer than 30 minutes, if I'm being completely honest. So these kids, it blows me away every time I think about it. But then another thing that they do is they will end up creating a creative story based off of a prompt that includes 12 memory facts that will give them the day of.

And they have 20 minutes to put together this amazing, exciting story, including all those facts. And then they turn around and present it to the judges. And this is really one of the moments where we get to see their individual personalities and what they love. Because they can really talk about anything, as long as they include all these facts.

And so some kids might set it up as a podcast like this, or a sporting event, or something like that. And you get to see their individual twist on the facts. And it's just a really cool experience. And the kids have a lot of fun with it. Lisa, I'm sitting here as Elise is describing this.

And I'm also thinking about another component of the Foundations Day, which really helps feed into skills that are being presented. And that's weekly presentations in community. Because this is not something that is foreign to our Foundation students. Each cycle, they get 24 opportunities to present in this same manner within the community space, in front of their friends, and their parents, and their tutors.

And so they're naturally getting memory master practice throughout the weeks of a particular cycle, simply by completing weekly presentations. It's so wonderful. Yeah. Yes. So you're right. It's built into the program. We stroke these skills every week, providing opportunities for our children to grow in those skills. That's really awesome.

I know that there is a mom or dad who's listening. And they have been listening to all of the things that memory masters do, and all of the things that national memory masters do. And I know that there are some parents who are thinking, hmm, I could never do that in a million years.

Is it too much pressure for little kids? How would you answer that, Kelly? And then I want your input too, Elyse, because you have been one of those little kids. Well, Elyse and I have joked several times that we know that memory masters are not robots. They're real children.

And I think this, again, goes back to what we were saying earlier. This process is in the hands of the parent. As a parent, you know your child best. You know what will help your child to stretch. And you know what will cause your child to snap. And so there may be portions of the memory work which may feel stressful to your child.

And you, as a parent, will have to intervene and assess, OK, is this going to be a growing opportunity, a stretching opportunity for our family this year? Or, as we said earlier in the podcast, are we going to hit pause-- not stop, but are we going to hit pause on this process-- and celebrate what we have accomplished, and then perhaps have a discussion or a conversation before the next cycle about what is our goal?

What's our goal as a family? Exactly. Is this something that we want to take on together? Because I will be honest with you, Elyse, it is the parents who wholeheartedly embrace that memory work, and even want to master it themselves, who often ignite the enthusiasm of their children to want to compete with them to be able to master the memory work.

So as a parent, you just never know how much you're paying forward by going, you know what? Hey, guys, listen to me recite the multiplication facts, or I can tell you where this week's memory work in geography is located on the map. Come here, let me show you. And your child will rise to that expectation of enthusiasm and involvement.

So parents, if you have a question about are they interested or not, lead the way, and you'll find out pretty quickly. My children delighted, absolutely delighted, in being able to assemble the timeline cards faster than me. Oh, yes. And so I totally agree with you. Elyse, what would you say?

How will we know if it's just too much? Well, in regards to Memory Master, I would tell parents, if I did it, your child can, too. But I love what Kelly said about the assessment process, because the purpose of Memory Master and National Memory Master is really just to prepare children to love to learn, like to teach them to love knowledge and information, and to teach them to remember it.

I mean, as an adult now, looking back, I'm not in school anymore. And I often ask myself the question, how much do I know without Google, without my cell phone on me? And that is such an important question that we, as adults, should ask ourselves. And we are training these students to not have to ask that question, because they will know how to take in information, and to really chew on it, and to learn from it, and then retain it, and be able to share it with others.

And I think that's one of the most special things about this competition, is those family dinners, where students can share with grandparents, and cousins, and friends, and all that, what they've learned. And that should really be the end goal of these families. And if that leads them to the Memory Master title or the National Memory Master title, then that is an amazing accomplishment.

And we want to celebrate them and give all the glory to God. But if that just means that they're a subject matter expert, or if they just get through the year and are happy with what they've done, that is a success as well. And I think that that is the encouragement that parents should know.

Because it is a competition with National Memory Master, but it's just mainly just a celebration. I love that that's been brought up so many times, because it's so true. Elyse, you did a great job of summing this up by really helping us, as parents, see what the purpose of this is.

And I love it. It's to teach kids to love knowledge and information, and to remember it, and then to chew on it, and to connect it, and then to share it. I love the way you situated Memory Master as something that families can do together, whether they are the child trying to remember all those facts, or the parent helping the child to remember all those facts.

And how many of us, as parents, know way more than we ever intended to know, because we had to prove somebody? We heard it a million times ourselves. So it is a way of learning as a family. But the main thing, parents, that we want you to know is that National Memory Master and Memory Master within your community is a way of celebrating what our students have done over this year or over several years to learn to know God and to make Him known.

Ladies, thank you so much for sharing. I actually have a few more questions about how we can decide whether or not-- and if we decide that maybe we're going to want to try this next year, what are some things we can do maybe this summer? Or as the year begins, would you guys be willing to come back another time soon and talk to me?

Absolutely. I feel like we left some stones unturned. And maybe we've gotten some people thinking who will want to spend the summer laying out a plan of attack or a plan of family learning that can be easy and gentle. So I'm going to get you guys to come back.

And listeners, just look for that podcast in the next several weeks. As you go about your week, as you go about whether or not you're practicing for National Memory Master or for Community Memory Master-- I know you've got a lot planned this week-- I want to give you a heads up to one thing you might want to look toward doing on Friday.

I want to let you know about a movie premiere of April 26. We are making Family Day at the theater. So there is a movie coming out called Unsung Hero. It's from the creators of the Jesus Revolution. Unsung Hero is about somebody that you young moms and dads might actually know.

It's the Smallbone family. They are from Australia. It's about their journey of adventure from Australia to the US. They are homeschoolers. When they come to the United States, they homeschool. They find church community. They write songs. And they become some of the biggest names in inspirational music-- Rebecca St.

James and for King and Country. If you want to find out the story behind the story, you look in theaters beginning April 26-- that's this Friday-- for the movie Unsung Hero. Tickets are on sale now. You can go to tickets.unsunghero.movie/ and get your tickets now. So that might be a fun thing-- a fun way to celebrate the end of your academic year.

Families, thank you. Listeners, thank you for being here. Kelly, Elise, thank you. And I'll look forward to talking to you guys again.