(upbeat music) - Welcome friends to this episode of the "Everyday Educator" podcast. I'm your host, Lisa Bailey, and I'm excited to spend some time with you today as we encourage one another, learn together, and ponder the delights and challenges that make homeschooling the adventure of a lifetime. Whether you're just considering this homeschooling possibility or deep into the daily delight of family learning, I believe you'll enjoy thinking along with us.

But don't forget, although this online community is awesome, you'll find even closer support in a local CC community. So go to classicalconversations.com and find a community near you today. Well, friends and listeners, I'm excited to tell you that the end of the academic year is approaching. I know that some of you have been chomping at the bit and some of you are sort of sad to see your community days drawing to a close, but all of us are thinking about end of the year and end of the year stuff.

And one of the things that goes along with bringing our academic year to a close is usually assessment. Looking back at what we've done, at what our students have learned, about how we've grown together, and then also considering what do we wish had happened differently. All kinds of things to do with assessment.

So today we are gonna talk a little bit about assessing the year, but I want us to think about assessment maybe in a little bit of a different way. We wanna think of assessment as celebrating the students that you have. And with me today is a very dear friend, a CC director who's worked with CC for years and years.

I know her, I love her. I know how she loves her family and how she loves on her community. And I happen to know that she's kind of a big celebrator. I have with me today, Jill Philbrick from North Carolina. Jill, thanks for coming on. - It is such a pleasure to be here with you.

Thank you for having me. - Jill and I have had lots of opportunities at practicums and at trainings to celebrate together. So I know listeners that you're gonna receive a blessing from hearing from her today. So let me just put it out there, Jill. I've already kind of spilled the beans with our audience.

Are you a big celebrator? - I am a big celebrator. - Have you always been that way? - Well, I think that in many ways, yes. I would say that I have been. - So as a child, did your family do lots of celebrating things? - We did. We did them.

I would say that I celebrate constantly maybe. That's really the way I feel like my parents were with me. My mom was home with me and we had one car. So we spent a lot of time at home together just celebrating whatever. I remember if I was learning to pronounce something or I was not homeschooled, but I have very vivid memories of my mom reading with me and helping me with vocabulary or if I had a school question or one time they had a math thing at school and they called her and said that I had won this estimating contest thing.

When I got home, she had made a poster and hung it on the wall. So I think I did grow up with that, that celebration in everything. Not only, I didn't have to do something giant. If I was happy about it, she was happy about it. If I brought her a flower, she was, "Oh, yay, thank you." So I think, yes, that was my culture.

- I love, that is very lovely. What a lovely way to grow up, celebrating big things like birthdays and winning prizes and then small things as well. I can remember feeling celebrated when I learned to tie my shoe, you know, or if I memorized a Bible verse for children's choir or something, I remember feeling celebrated.

So what kinds of things do you celebrate as a family now? - As a family now, we definitely do birthdays, you know, and different accomplishments. If someone met something like a work thing or a school thing, some things like that, we definitely take a minute and everybody, "Oh, look, guess what?

"Tell everybody what you did today." If something happened at CC, if there was a presentation that went well, we tend to ask each other, "Hey, how did your presentation go?" And even our older daughters would ask our sons, you know, "Hey, how'd that thing go at CC today?" - Oh, that's so sweet.

- It really is. And I guess that sort of celebration, I wouldn't say it always turns into posters and going out for dinner, but it's always recognized and just affirming between one another. So those kinds of things happen, job things, good news that comes from different people. At church, we celebrate, you know, when there's a good report, especially when we're praying for something to happen.

- Right, right. - So yeah, that's all that's there. - I love celebrating small things. I know, I feel like I like to celebrate things. In fact, one of my daughter's friends said one time, "Y'all have more weird celebration traditions "than any family I know." And so I think that maybe we do, and I just didn't recognize that, but we have always celebrated small things, maybe in outsized ways.

I can remember for years, we celebrated the sighting of the first spring robin because Stephanie and I went to the library when she was really little and got books every week. And one of her favorite books one year was a book called "My Spring Robin." And so it talked all about the first robin that this little child saw.

And so she made it her practice for years to find the first spring robin. And I found myself last week, when I was able to spend some time with my grandson in his backyard, I found myself looking, and we in fact saw our first spring robin. And I think he thought that Lolly was a little outside the bounds of it.

He didn't understand why I was so excited. And I guess to him and his 20-month-old self, it was just a bird in the backyard, Lolly. But I think that celebrating is fun. - It is. - It's fun. - And why wouldn't we? - Yes. - I mean, you know, God celebrates, He sings over us with joy.

There's glory every morning. And I think He loves when we notice it. I think He loves when we love one another enough to rejoice when others rejoice. - Yes. I was gonna ask you, why is celebrating fun? 'Cause we've talked about some fun things. Why is celebrating fun? Why is celebrating necessary and beneficial or biblical?

I love what you've already said that, you know, we're following God's example. He celebrates and sings, and He asks us to be joyful. Give me some other, why is celebrating fun or necessary or biblical? - Well, it's, I mean, it's really hard to celebrate with a frown on your face.

It's, you know, one time I heard somebody one time say that if you're not feeling happy, you should skip. Because it is really hard to be in a bad mood while you're skipping. - I don't think she invented that. I think she heard it somewhere. But I tried it, and it is true.

So I think putting ourself, being intentional about rejoicing with others, it might, if you're not a rejoicer or a celebrator, it can feel a little uncomfortable at first and awkward. You know, like maybe that person who really liked to hug and they come with their arms a little stiff.

But I think if we practice it, we can begin to find a style of celebrating that works for us. It doesn't have to everybody look the same, but it does put our heart in an expectant state for good and for joy, and that's God, right? He is, He wants us to think on these things, things which are worthy of praise, things which glorify Him, things which are good and have a good report.

And so we're doing what Philippians says when we are looking for and thinking on those things. So it is joyful and fun. It is biblical. And I think it's necessary because if we don't, if we don't celebrate, then all the work can feel that it wasn't received. And I think receiving the work is just as important as doing the work.

So years ago, I was visiting family who lives a thousand miles away, and I call her my cousin-in-law. And if you've talked to me for long, you've probably heard me talk about my cousin-in-law. Michelle is her name, and she is so dear to my heart. So she brought me, well, didn't bring to me, she was showing me a quilt that somebody made for her daughter.

So the thing's 20 years old now, and it is shown some wear, but you can see the stitches. And this quilt was, it's so precious to her. And we were talking about how all that hard work, those even stitches, that was, it was not, it didn't just fall together.

This was hours of someone's time and love. And if Michelle had not received that quilt, it would have been just merely work on the part of her friend. But when she received that quilt, it was a joy for both of them. And I think that when we receive the work that our children do, it's not anymore just work.

It's also joy. If we cook a meal and everybody ate it, but no one received it with gladness, then we just feel like we did work. But if they tell us it was good, or that they appreciate it, or they even notice that we, I don't know, did something, whatever thing we did different that time, either added some cinnamon, or put one little single flower on the table, or maybe brought in that new spring robin and let it walk around on the table.

(both laughing) That when we notice those things, it does bring joy. And if we don't notice, like God notices, we read in the Bible that He sees the work we do, and He honors it. And sometimes knowing that He sees is enough for us, because we can feel unthanked, we can feel unnoticed.

And I'm sure our children feel that way too, about their math, and their science, and their Latin, and cleaning their room, and practicing their instruments. - Right. - All those things that they can feel overlooked and unappreciated. And when we know God sees it and God receives it, then it helps us to do it.

Well, why not us also actively follow God's pattern of receiving it, acknowledging it, and making it part of what we celebrate? - Oh, I love this so much. We celebrate because it follows God's pattern. I love that. And what a great thing to pass on to our children so that our grandchildren will also be celebrated, and our great-grandchildren.

I love it that in what you have said, Jill, I can see that rejoicing together, celebrating together, builds community. And we can live together in celebration, and that is a beautiful thing. I love this a lot. Okay, let me ask you, let's bring it toward our homeschooling lives. I mean, although as homeschooling moms, for all of these years, you and I are used to everything being about the homeschooling life.

What do you remember? 'Cause you said you were not homeschooled. Neither was I. What do you remember about the end of the year as a student yourself? What was the end of the year like for you? I mean, I remember exams. That's what I remember about the end of the year.

- Yes, I remember exams. And I remember feeling that at the end of the year, there was lots of watching movies. - Oh, gosh, yes. - In the classrooms. You know, it felt like everything sort of slacked off. But I don't know that I felt like there was an academic closure.

And so I love that in CC, we do have some year-end presentations, some things that build. I think that that final debate and that final presentation or speech or memory master opportunity, even if you don't take advantage of it, or faces of history, I think that those things are an academic closure and a way to celebrate and finish something instead of just having it dribble off into nothingness.

So I would say that my academic year, really, it just was a shift in our thinking towards summer and most people, I can't wait to get out of here sort of thing. And sometimes the teachers too, which doesn't make you feel super celebrated and welcomed at all, when the teachers don't know what to do.

- Yeah, they're just eager to get rid of you and not see you every day for a while. - Yes, exactly. And say, instead of, I don't think they knew, they probably had work they had to do. And so putting a movie on was, it was not that they didn't want to do something fun with us and they thought they were doing something fun with us.

There were no blue books, there was no big conversation at the end of the year with all the inside jokes that we have gathered as we studied. - I like that, inside jokes. Yeah, those last days of community with CC are, you're right, all about the inside jokes and the remembering the stories and the culmination of all those efforts towards something.

Like you said, you have mock trial, you have the senior thesis, you have final debates. So many end of the year, tie up all the loose ends and let's celebrate together what we've learned together. And that's a cool thing. So what do you do with your children? What have you done?

What do you do with your children as the end of the school year approaches? How do you commemorate the year? And then I'm gonna ask you, how did you assess the year? - So I would say that commemorations in our home have followed what was being commemorated in community.

So if it was mock trial, we would participate in that, gear up for that and then celebrate that when it was over. Or the final debate, just saying, "Hey, how did that go?" "Yay, your last debate, okay." - Wonderful. Or you can either put it behind you and let's just move on or-- - Right.

- Right. (laughing) - Yes. - You know, that can be the thrill of victory and the agony of defeat sometimes. - Yes, the how well you did and how much we learned. Yes. - Yes, exactly, exactly. And sometimes, okay, the Bible says let's avoid offense. There can be some of that in there too.

- Right, right. - Because it's difficult to look back without only seeing something from your own perspective in mock-- - Sure. - Anything of the competition especially. - Sure, sure. - So, you know, working through that, I think that's part of assessing too is, okay, let's be honest about this.

Where did you do well? Where didn't you do well? What was or was not what you would consider fair? And what do we do about it in the future? Can you be more clear? Can you, what can you do? So those kinds of things I think have been, have guided the kinds of celebrations we have at home based on the things that were accomplished in CC.

Excuse me. So we would sometimes go out to dinner. Sometimes maybe with another student or a family, people would say, hey, this is over, let's, who's, and it would be spur of the moment usually. Like, we're going to Chick-fil-A, you know, after commuting. - Yes. - Of course it's Chick-fil-A.

- Of course. - Because that's where all the (indistinct) works. - That's where we're going. - And get a milkshake. - Yes. - Right, things like that, or just even, just staying a little longer and playing on the playground a little longer. And the moms hanging out and talking.

Our community doesn't have a whole lot of dads. Usually if they come, they come for lunch or something, which we love seeing them. But when I say moms, I only mean that in my personal community, there aren't really a lot of dads that are there. Not that they shouldn't.

- Yes. - So I don't want to exclude that. - Yeah, yeah. - But when the parents do hang around and talk and laugh, that feels like a celebration too. - Yes, it does. - That nobody's rushing to get in their car and that we ask each other, hey, how'd they do?

How did this go? I feel like that is, it's a way of life instead of maybe necessarily a huge thing. And that because CC has a lot to celebrate throughout, because we have peer review and self-assessment constantly in the challenge years, we are frequently assessing and learning how our assessment is not only what we would criticize about ourselves.

- Yes, yes, I like that. I remember that I used to, as a tutor, when we would have debates, we would begin, we would always do assessment at the end because for one thing, students have to be pressed to assess themselves well, to not, some to not be too hard on themselves and some not to give themselves too much credit.

But it was always important that we did that together. And so I would always ask the opposing team, what did your opponent do well? And they got to share what the other team did that was so good and they would give them kudos. And then I would always ask each team, what do you wish you had done differently?

Not necessarily better, that's kind of pejorative. What do you wish you had done differently? So I love that whole idea of taking assessment, not just from your parent and not just from yourself, but from your community of learning. That's really good. - Yes, and I love that you said too, it's different instead of better.

I'm not sure that I have been intentional with that wording, but I love that. And I love very specific, very intentional wording. So I'm going to make that change and work toward adjusting that in my vocabulary. I really like that. What could you have done differently? - As a student, I was always, and frankly, as an adult, I was always really hard on myself.

What did I do wrong? How did I fall short? And so I think it is really helpful to think, huh, well, this is what I did and this was the outcome. Instead of saying, what did I do right or wrong? What could I do differently? Maybe the outcome was not bad, but I now think if I had done this instead, maybe the outcome would have been this instead.

And so that's just, that's kind of fun. - I really like that. I think all the future people who cross my path and are assessed by me will want to write you a thank you note. - Let me ask you this. What do you assess about your student or with your student at the end of the year or anytime you do assessment really, but since we're talking about assessments at the end of the year, what do you assess with your students?

- I would say the number one thing I assess is whether, and I ask them, did you do your best? I am thrilled when their academic work is strengthened, but I would rather, and I don't think we have to choose. I don't think it's either academic growth or character growth.

But I think only one and not the other can be frustrating. So if my child did great academic growth, but grew very prideful or angry at their peers or started comparing themselves a little haughtily or gave me a hard time every time I said, get out this, then that's a big part of homeschool for me.

That's the whole point of homeschool is a whole person mentoring, not just can you be the best at one or even six strands of learning. So that is probably the heavier weight for me. I have been blessed that my children have not struggled academically. It does not mean that everything came easy.

I mean, that they were A students in everything, but it does mean that I did not, they were able to do work when they applied diligence and when they tried, it was not the struggle that some people have to go through. And I am very, very blessed for that.

So I have had the ability to push them a little further and to push them in their attitude as well and say, okay, but did you really do your best? And I think that I've assigned grades that way. I have, I've said, okay, did you do your best? And if they say no, then for me personally, then that's not an A plus because in my assessment of my children, their attitude matters toward their grade.

And if they did not give their best, and if they did not give their best, if they got everything right in math, but their attitude stunk, well, I mean, it's kind of hard not to give an A plus when you got it all right, but I am not very good at grading.

- You could, and you are the parent. You are the authority. You know what you were going for and arrogance was not it. - No, it was not. And honestly, I feel like grades mean so little compared to what they used to be, that everything is a gray area with grades, especially when you're a homeschooler, that no college really looks at that A as an A, that they don't look at that B as a B.

And I've given my kids Bs for not doing their best. And I've asked them, what do you think you deserve? And they have said, well, I think I deserve a B here. Now I have not, if they've said it was awful and hard and I think I deserve a C, I'm like, well, okay, let's talk about it.

- Right, exactly. - Did you put in the effort? - Yeah. - Did you make, did you correct it? Yes, I worked through it and I corrected it. Well, then it was right by the end. So I'm not gonna make you carry poor work with you. It's not like you got half of it right and you can't redeem it and now you move on to the next chapter and you still don't know what you're doing.

We worked through it. We figured it out. You did complete the assignment. You did learn what you needed to learn and carry that with you into the next page or chapter or book. So I think that I give a lot of grace there, especially when there's been a good attitude.

So I would say we assess attitude. We assess cooperation. We assess even things like preparation. Were you up on time? Did this year go well? And we've had years that I felt like the whole year was just a struggle with everybody getting on the same page at the same time.

And we've said, okay, guys, you know what? This year, what went well was X, Y, Z. What did not go well was one, two, three. So what's our plan? And we've tried to work together and come to an agreement. I only have one child in CC anymore and he is in challenge two.

And so this year, from last year and the beginning of this year, we talked about, okay, what's our plan? We know that the two of us who are very much alike and who are probably the most unstructured of us. - Sure, I can see that. (both laughing) I can see that.

- It's just like a great big comedy show for heaven. And they can just watch them. They're having a good time. And so we had to say, okay, we've got to set our alarm. We've got to meet in the kitchen by a certain time. We've, and even he would come to me and say, mom, you know what?

I've noticed if we don't start with math, then it's really hard to get it in. I'm like, you're right, bud. Let's get this thing going. So I think the two of us, sort of a continual course correction, I guess. - Yes, yes. - I feel like that was a very long answer.

- I think that's a good answer though. I love that continual course correction is very important. And you know what, Jill? I think that's a good piece for families to add into assessment. So it's not just what did we do well this year academically and how did we grow spiritually and emotionally and relationally?

It's also what will we do with this assessment? You're teaching your children that assessment is important, but for a reason, not just so that we can feel better or worse about ourselves but for what you just said, it will allow for continual course correction. If we know that what we did this year did not, either did or did not give us the results that we really were shooting for, then what will we do to make sure we don't find ourselves discouraged or disappointed at the end of next semester?

- Yes. - So I love that. - I really liked that you said it isn't to make us feel good or bad. It's to have a better result or a continued growth of results if things are going well. I really liked that summary there. That's awesome. I know that a lot of parents, especially maybe some of our listeners who are just getting started with this home-centered education, they maybe have had their kids in public or even private school, and they themselves may be the result of public and private education.

A lot of parents rely on assessing by test scores or a grade that their student may have gotten on a project, a report, or a paper, mostly seeing assessment as how much have we learned this year in or about fill-in-the-blank subject. But I love that you brought out there are other areas of growth that we as parents who love our whole child want to assess.

You know, when I was in school, I got a grade for trig and a grade for chemistry and a grade for American literature by specific teachers who, now, I'm not saying they didn't care about me as a person, but academically, they only cared about what I did in that one subject, in that one class.

And as homeschooling parents, that's not true of our children's teachers 'cause we care that they are learning what they are applying themselves to. I'm not saying that I didn't care about my child learning algebra two or biology, right? I did care that they were learning what they applied themselves to.

But I also cared that they were learning to do hard things, that they were learning to persevere. I cared that they were learning to listen with a caring heart. I wanted to know that they were kinder in their dealings with their family and their friends than they were last year.

So what are some other growth things that we could assess? - I think comprehension, and it sounds academic, but if they are frustrated by Latin or math or reading, then that would let us know that that's an area that they need more equipping. And it isn't that they failed, it might be that there's a missing piece, a gap in the grammar somewhere, that somewhere, something is just not clicking.

And what we might say then is, if we recognize that our student is having a hard time with something, then that's probably the area that we need to begin sitting with them while they work. - Good job. Oh yeah, that's awesome. - That way we are also, I mean, 'cause we probably don't know as much as they do about the topic if we haven't been sitting with them.

So letting them teach us or letting them ask questions and us working through some of those things and using, there's so many resources. Oh my goodness. I mean, CC Connected, if you really are a watch a video person, there's videos for most of the things. - For most everything.

- Yes. And in foundations, lots of people have come up with lots of things. If memory work has been hard, then we need to sit with our children and work on memory work. If Faces of History or leading up to that with writing and IEW has been hard, then maybe we need to let them dictate to us or we need to model that for them.

Maybe we need to diagram some sentences and let them ask us the questions to confirm, are we in the right direction here with this? What part of speech is this? The question confirmations that they learn. Maybe if we're in challenge A and they're having a hard time with their Latin vocabulary, we need to sit down beside them and say, okay, tell me everything you know about this ending and let's compare it to the answer key and what can you find?

So it's more, I would say, assessing if they're comfortable learning. And if they're not, then we have a part as a parent to equip them in that area and strengthen that. It isn't necessarily, can be, that they just didn't do their work. But then that's not a learning thing.

That's really something else. - That's a hard thing. - It is. So if they need assessment in that area, I would say, so understanding is something that's good to assess and to assess whether we're doing it in a way that helps them understand, not to assess their ability to understand, but is this process working?

Like we did in IEW, did your keyword outline serve you well? If you couldn't remember it, it wasn't that there's something wrong with your memory, it's that you need to tweak your keyword outline 'cause those things that you wrote aren't triggering your memory, aren't allowing you to, you need to choose something different.

- Right, right. - So did it serve you, not did you serve it? And so I think the same thing with comprehension. I would say too, assessing in an area of what, like you said earlier, are they kinder? Are they celebrating one another? And when they feel celebrated, hopefully that's some seed we planted in them that will grow and will produce celebration for others.

Hopefully they will start to look at their friends and say, "Hey, that was a great, I loved your presentation. "This was so good." And maybe even recognize where, if we talk through those things with them about this is what you did well, then maybe they'll be more comfortable sharing those kinds of compliments with others.

Or if we say, so language, if a student says, "I'm a math person," which I don't like when people do that anyway because you're a person and God is all those things and he's all those things in you. So just don't limit yourself. I'm not saying that you can't love math.

I'm saying don't say that that's all you are because you have all of it 'cause God has all of it and he's in you. But if you love math and feel like that literature is hard, then maybe you can look at literature like you look at math and learn to decode literature.

Or maybe if you feel like you're really strong in literature and that math is not your favorite thing or that math seems to be more work for you, then look at math as a language. So what are your strengths? What makes this one thing work for you? And then ask the Lord.

Like as a parent, we can say, "Lord," he's right there wanting us to ask him, "What this more approachable for my child? "Why do they seem to have better success," on paper at least, "in this area? "And how can I relate that to this other area?" And show them where the skills they have will also work here.

And that can encourage our students so they don't feel they have to put a whole different brain in their head to do a different task. - Oh, I love that. Wow, and that really teaches them about assessment in a different way. It is not just a grade. It is not only outcome-based.

It's let's look at the process. Let's look at the process of learning and let's focus together as a parent and student as a team on how can we help you shore up your grasp on the skills of learning and on the different tools. And let's look at the outcome that you got and why that might be a surprise to you.

And there's so much more to assessing than just thinking you got an A and you got a B and you got these many things right on the test and this many things wrong on the test. It goes beyond that. And as parents, we are so blessed as homeschooling parents that we have the time and the interest and the intimate knowledge of our student and how they are working.

And we really can do a better job of assessment than any other entity can possibly do with our student. And I love it that as the homeschooling parent, as the mom and the dad in this situation, you know and love and shepherd your child's heart like nobody else besides the Father God.

And so you care about are they growing in the fruits of the Spirit? You know, have they learned to love their neighbor better this year? Are they learning to speak the truth in love? Are they, like you said, are they learning the art of encouraging one another? You know, can you see if your child is more confident in following the Lord's guidance?

You know, these are all, I mean, think about, here's the truth, friends, classical educators, all of us. Here's the truth. When your child is 35, probably nobody's gonna ask them to diagram a Latin sentence. Nobody will care if they can do it or not, but they may very well care if your child speaks words of gold, if they speak kindness and love and truth, if they can recognize and share beauty.

And so these are things, if these are the things that are important to us, we need to spend some time assessing those things as well as test scores. - Yes, and with test scores, that does not assess character. It does not assess their confidence, and it can feel so clinical.

And we don't. So for year-end, you know, the standardized tests that are required, I did not necessarily teach that material. My children did not necessarily read the same material that they would have read for a system that is planning on that particular test. And so I have, I think that maybe, I think there's a lot of us this way who really don't care about the test scores, the standardized test scores.

We do it to check a box for the state and to be honorable to what is required, and that's fine. And I am comfortable with that because I don't care. I really, personally, I don't care. If it was really, really low, I would probably then say, "Okay, we probably need to do a little more reading or a little more time here." But I don't even, I don't care.

If it's not dangerously low, and if it's really, really high, then I also am thinking, "Well, that probably has to do with the fact that you've had a well-rounded education and good reasoning skills." And some people just take tests well. Some people are fantastic at standardized tests, and some people aren't.

It does not always reflect what we actually are thinking process. I have sat there- - Such a good reminder. - Well, I've sat there watching my children taking an online test, and I've seen them get things wrong. And I've known that it was the way the question was worded.

Specifically, one of my children, and you know my children, you could probably- - Yep, yep. - Switch one like this, watched this math question. She was probably in sixth or seventh grade. And it said, "Tom has seven helpers, and they all, this many acres of wheat, this many dollars." This, I mean, it was a long, lots of things.

- Yes, lots of moving parts. - Yes, exactly. And then it said, "So how much?" at the end. And I watched her work through it, and I watched her get it wrong. And I know that it was because the question said, "Helpers." And the answer did not include Tom, only "Helpers." And she was like, "No, it said, 'Helpers.'" 'Cause the answer that she was looking for wasn't even there.

And she thinks, "Helpers" means all four were working. And so, there's nothing wrong with her brain. - Exactly. - She is so specific in her language. And she's taken tests that she, based on what she learned, she said, "Mom, the right answer wasn't even there. So I had to guess what they wanted me to say." So, and maybe it was, and maybe it wasn't.

You know, it could have been that she was wrong, or it could have been that the worldview from the book that this test is taken from does not have an answer that represents the worldview she read from. - It's exactly right. And we are so blessed as the parent in the home, every day, working shoulder to shoulder with our children, to recognize that, and to know that, and to be able to assess with that in mind.

I love that. And that doesn't have to be what makes my year successful. It can be my own observations. It can be the work we did. I do the test because we need to do the test. But that is not how I determine the success rate of what we learned.

- So how do you determine the success rate? - If they completed what I asked them to complete, and completed it with the standard that I believe is agreed upon between my children and me, I do not think that I expect way more than they think is reasonable. I would say that they understand our family expectations, and they know when they're meeting them and when they're not.

And they've come to me if they were sick that week, or something, or if it was really hard, or longer than expected, and said, I'm doing my best, or I got behind, and what do I do now? So even helping them, for them to be able to assess, I'm not meeting a standard.

That's fantastic, that they can assess that on their own. And then we can decide, is this a poor planning thing, and what's our response going to be? Or is this that this is just not gonna happen because of circumstances that are happening? And we can decide what our response to that will be.

And they're gonna need that as an adult. They're gonna need to decide if they're running late somewhere, does that mean we still stop for coffee? Or does that mean that I don't take the coffee and I head on to work? - Yes, yes, yes. - So, or I was having a hard day.

Do I still also have to stay up till two in the morning working on this? Or is it okay for me to go to the Lord and say, I just need some rest right now? - Yeah. I think that's really cool. We do set examples for our students about what right assessment is all about.

I think that we give them the tools to assess themselves and the knowledge that assessment is more than just a number on a paper or on a test. That assessment includes all those things that we've been talking about. The expectations, the intentions, the degree of effort that we put into it, our attitude toward our work and toward our parent and toward ourselves and toward our community, all of that.

Here's the last question I want to ask you today, Jill. How can we, how do we celebrate our students on the growth they had this year? How do we, and Anne, how do we help them see assessment is natural and good and helpful? - Well, I think they can see assessment as natural, good, and helpful when we make it a positive experience and when we also assess ourselves.

When they see this isn't just an assessment for them, but when we talk about our own thing, even if it is, you know, back to the dinner, if we say, wow, you know, I think next time I would. I, and we do that, you know, or if we're going on vacation, well, I'm not taking this interstate again.

Next time we're going to do this. (laughs) If we, if they see us realize where we need to do something different and then apply it, then even if it's a conversation with them, say, you know what, I realized I did this wrong with you. Next time, this is what I will do.

Those kinds of, they might not recognize that as assessment, but we show them, we can say now, just like I had to make an adjustment in my recipe, I'm asking you, how can we make an adjustment in your process here? So we can show them that it is an assessment.

And I think that, that helps it to become natural and good. - Well, I just want to say to you, I love this. When we show them that assessment is positive and not punishment. - Yes. - Assessment is about what assessment should be about how we are growing and how we can grow, not a stick to beat us up about what went wrong.

Yeah. - Right, God doesn't do that. He, I mean, He corrects us by showing us truth and by pulling us toward goodness, not by beating us up. And so the beating up was under the law. You know, the beating up was you'll never meet this standard was you'll never be good enough.

And so now that Jesus paid for us, He put His standard in us. Instead of us having to race around trying to meet it, He put it in there already. It's part of us, His nature. And so relying on Him, 'cause we could never meet that standard on our own.

Never, never, never. And so Jesus came and He didn't lower the standard. He didn't say, "Okay, now sin is allowed in holiness." Instead, He just made us holy. I mean. - That's great. - The standard doesn't change. The standard of excellence doesn't change, but the equipping for excellence is where we can make adjustments.

Jesus equipped us for holiness and gave us the ability to live like a child of God. And it doesn't mean we don't have times that we do things wrong and that we need to go back and fix things or repent or make a change. But the ability is there and the equipping is there.

And so equipping our children to think for themselves, equipping our children to assess rightly, equipping our children to trust God and ask God, ask for help and be honest with themselves is where we don't change the standard, we equip the student. - I love that. We equip the students.

And that is the key to assessment. Assessment is not a dark and scary thing. It is not a dark and scary topic. It is about the continuation of the equipping that we are providing for our students joyfully as we homeschool them. And so listeners, I hope that Jill has helped you to see that assessment is not a sad day.

It is not a sad process. It is all bound up in celebration and to celebrate is what God has brought us through as a family together and the ways that we have grown more like Him this year because of what we have done. And if we discover something that we didn't grow in the way we thought we would, that's a good thing.

The assessment has brought that to light and we can do something differently in the future to come back toward our goal. That's really cool. Thank you so much for sharing all of this today. - Absolutely. It was always, well, it is always wonderful to be with you and it was a lot of fun.

- I think it is a great time for us to talk together. And families, as we end this podcast, I want to tell you about something. If you're looking for something to do as a family to celebrate the end of your year, to celebrate what the Lord has done in your homeschool, I want to make you aware of something called the International Association for Creation, the Creation Trail.

It has partnered with certified Bible guides to offer in-person biblical worldview tours of world-class secular museums throughout the United States and beyond. So you could have a certified Bible guide that will help you find your biblical worldview and show you how that biblical worldview is portrayed or not portrayed, maybe in what you see in the museums across the United States.

There are exclusive discounts on tours for families that are enrolled in CC. You could even go as a group from CC, maybe your challenge class would want to do that. If you want to find out about the exclusive CC discount code go to CC Connected, into the Learning Center, and into CC Member Benefit.

And if you just want to learn more about the IAC, the International Association for Creation, you can find that out at associationforcreation.org. That's associationforcreation.org, all right? That might be a cool way to celebrate the end of a great year as your family brings your homeschooling year to a close.

Families, thank you. I hope that you've gotten a new view on celebration and a new view on assessment and how they can go together. Jill, thank you again for your insights. - Absolutely, thank you. I learned a lot today too. - All right, bye guys. See you next time.

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