what's going on y'all there's another episode of curious mike i am here with denise garcia and britney renner appreciate y'all getting on the show thanks for having us yeah it's an honor denise's first podcast ever we've um me and you have been friends for years now um first time meeting you the other night yeah y'all have been friends how long since like 2018 too but we recently just got closer and then we filmed basketball wives so that i feel like trauma bonded us yeah talk a little bit about uh basketball wives what is that and like what are y'all why'd y'all get on the show and kind of what are you trying to get across on the show you can go first well i think the first time that i went on basketball wives i was very like friendly kind of trying to be liked and i came back full hijab and just different side of eyes and i thought maybe i would have a different experience but it was the same bullshit really so you regret going on there so what oh i don't have any regrets no i mean i feel like i don't think there's anything to be proud about when it comes to like checking someone that could be your mother like the same age as your mom but old bitches get checked every day and it's not something to be proud of but you know check out the show i've never seen it nah yeah i'm missing anything y'all too that's probably entertaining well i mean i enjoyed it i just feel like watching it play back was totally different than i thought it was going to be like i feel like people didn't get to see the real me they didn't really get to see like my personality really is it like it's reality tv right yeah clipping up and painting the narratives they want to paint yeah yeah but i think this season was so unique because you had a mother and daughter relationship that was just like the center and really the theme of the season and so like that in itself watching that playback too was really rough um we were closer to the daughter chantelle it was her first season as well so i i feel like that just kind of took up the whole season so it really didn't get what we kind of wanted really yeah i don't feel like at the end of the day it's really to showcase the lifestyle of people like in that world in that realm i feel like it's just more centered around the group dynamic and its dysfunction so naturally i don't think they even captured our friendship accurately in my opinion so you know but we made real friends yeah y'all are great friends obviously man there's um there's such a like for some reason such a negative connotation of being like a baby mama like whether the relationship you were in was super like healthy and good and you had a kid and you brought a kid into the world and it was whatever for some reason people always take that and run with it yeah and a narrative is painted that's so negative sometimes so how do you guys feel about that and why do you think that is i mean i i i've felt for you just seeing like some of the stuff you've gone through comments wise and i haven't known you as long but i'm sure it's similar like why what do you think that negative connotation comes from and speak on that a little bit i feel like ever since um my ex and i were together and he posted me it was like oh you're a gold digger and this is before we even brought zoe into the world so i feel like people just think that you're kind of out there for what players can offer you like financially and just all of that um but i my situation i feel like it's like point maybe like one zero percent of the league like i knew him before in high school like my situation is very different so like having to deal with that publicly was really hard um i don't understand why um fully like we get that in your situation like when you talk about athletes or people that end up having money it's their dream scenario to you know stay with the girl that they went through high school with and grew up with and that was you're in a zoe situation and you know so i don't know i don't really understand and i was an athlete myself too like i had my own stuff going on i was a soccer player he was basketball so it was like i had my own ride somewhere to go play and he had his own so i felt like that kind of brought us together because we both were student athletes but we didn't think anything like i didn't think that you know i didn't know what to expect so i was kind of just experiencing it first and we were so young too like looking back i'm like i don't know how i even was able to navigate that but i learned a lot i feel like you you have handled it well like it hasn't taken away like since i've known you hasn't taken away like your joy of life you still like to have fun you're still denise it hasn't like beat you up too much so thank you in this world like it's good to have thick skin your situation's a little different because you met pj like later on correct how long have you known him what was that like yeah i met him um i think we had started kind of like talking in 2019 um so kind of like right before he had got drafted you know but let's reverse one second because before we go on to that because that is whatever you have made comments i think you're asking us about how do we feel being on the other side of it my question to you is you have made comments saying that you would never wife someone who has a child with someone in the league so my question to you is like what inspired you to feel that way and what connotation do you have about women who have a child with a basketball player that's a good question we'd love to hear the answer what is my connotation i don't have a negative connotation to it i think that you know my my right hand man nicodemus he um you've met little nick i think or you know about little nicodemus the little baby i'm always with and him and his wife just separated and nicodemus has spoken just on the the difficulties it brings once you have a child to then like move on like it takes a very understanding person to want to take on that role take on that and it can get really messy like when you're going into life with a woman who has a child and now you're having to navigate like how close are you going to get with the child how does the baby daddy feel about you getting close to the child so i don't have a negative connotation i feel like for me because i don't have any kids it's something that i've always thought i would stay like steer away from but i truly feel like as i've gotten older i've realized like once you meet someone and you're really down for them then you everything that comes along with them you can decide if you want to take that on or not i don't have a negative connotation like oh that person has a child so they're they're untouchable and that's like a negative thing i just feel like you have to weigh it out you have to because it does you know it comes with a lot if you're willing to take that on so i don't view it negatively the comments i said about um what comments are you specifically talking about i think i think you're talking about when he said that he wouldn't like somebody that was already oh that had talked to an athlete yeah um i feel like if you dated like publicly like a player it would be hard just because of i don't know i just feel like it'd be hard what do y'all think about that do you think that i'm curious on y'all's thoughts because to me i like i said in the in the comments like it would be tough dating someone's old girl and they just always have that like over you like i don't know it's tough like i feel like i could be tripping though it could be like an ego thing or like a insecurity thing i don't know it could be i don't know i'm not saying i'm right that's just how i've always felt but i'm i'm i'm open to change i'm not stuck in my ways i feel like i see why guys are hesitant with certain girls because i even see certain girls and i'm like you make it hard for us women to be taken seriously as like you know mothers versus baby mama or out here for the wrong thing so i get that because i see it and i'm like you guys are surrounded by it a lot um i just think it's up to to you guys to kind of like bet those girls out you know what i'm saying because it is i see what you guys are surrounded by too so i understand that part of it but um on the flip side i just feel like the reason why i have stayed true to myself is because you got to make your private life happy and make sure that whoever's coming into yours in your child's world is adding something i agree so so is your is your because i've i agree with you your stands britney because i've listened to some of your like podcasts and you know talking to guys and whatever and going back and forth with them like what is your stance on like past past are you like once you meet the person past doesn't really matter what is your what is your thoughts on that i feel like everything someone has encountered up into present day needed to happen so whatever has taken place whatever puzzle pieces these relationships have given you i'm not going to judge anyone for it if i don't want someone to judge me for my past i cannot judge them and i feel like of course i am always going to be very vocal about that that group of people that i feel like you know if you have had public relationships or you've just lived a very public life like myself i always found myself going to bat for and being that voice for that because you know for me it's like i live my life out loud like i mean pretty much everything i've done you can google and find it so i feel like you not wanting children like with someone who already has a kid because you don't have children is a very different energy than oh you dated this basketball player who took you seriously who you thought was your end game and like i wouldn't look at you as that like to me that's very egotistical again your preference you're allowed that but i also think it's kind of like okay like i feel like it's honestly it's it might be the way most men are wired versus how women are wired like i feel like most women and correct me if i'm wrong y'all don't care as much about past as men and i feel like that's because y'all have a gift of being more forgiving being more graceful being more this all these things and men seem to like dudes will get mad over some stuff that happened five years ago when you weren't even with them but i don't know what that is in men i feel like it's just a difference in like how we view a situation um i don't really know if it's necessarily like wrong but it could very well be an ego thing and that's not that's not the right way to go about relationships but at the end of the day i feel like whatever your preference is there's someone out there for everyone like yeah i i also feel like though that men collectively not only have like pretty low self-esteem for the most part or their their ego is astronomical i feel like men fixate a lot on someone's past because they feel that another man can permanently taint a woman you don't have that power you just don't so it's like again you don't think so you don't think a man cannot permanently taint me it's just like not you maybe you're very a strong independent woman but a lot of women are very they've had relationships that have completely changed their personalities the way they trust a man the way they the way they view men in general i feel like like you can be in a messed up relationship that can they can really mess you up mess right but i think where i'm focusing on because i think it's i get what you're saying you're saying that people can be jaded from whatever experiences they have but i feel like when it comes to past and a man focusing on what happened five years ago or what man you slept with or what guy you were with that is thinking when this man stuck his penis in her she no longer has value so that to me is where i challenge like that because it's like okay well who are y'all having sex with we're the whores but who are we all fucking you know what i mean so i think that's kind of where it's like you know yes we're aware of double standards we all love them when it benefits us but the truth of the matter is it's like if you meet somebody that makes sense whether they have a kid whether they've been with someone publicly that was in the league it's like why miss out on the love potential love of your life just because some guy dated her and it didn't work out they were meant to have a kid they moved on it's just like like i said but that's the that's the mature that's probably the mature mindset no no 100 i i wish i wish i could i could think like that too it's like it's like why are we seen as like the baggage you know like why do we when it's like a blessing mama there's a baby daddy and also right and also like i really thought and so did my ex we thought we were end game and then zoe came before that so honestly it showed me that actually you are not my end game yeah and so it's like i had to learn in a different i think it's the same the same ideology is the reason why men like some type of like purity in a woman but women don't really like that in men like the the the girls that a lot of dudes go for is like someone who hasn't done everything in the book and and like been around the world and seen everything there is to see and done everything like they like to bring like a new experience to a woman and i feel like women are the opposite they want a dude who has done his thing can show them you know put them on new things i feel like it's the same ideology i feel like men and women are wired different but putting myself in y'all's shoes the double standards would get irritating the fact that we think that we can just have a crazy past and have a million bodies in our past a billion bodies a million generous but then we'll be tripping about if if a girl we like has however many bodies my question is does that matter at all to you guys does past this past matter like at all that's hard because i feel like there's a part of me that's like get it out of your system i don't care what happened before me as long as it's not happening when i'm with you and after but also like to some extent because who are you exchanging energy with right like how those are real soul ties that's a real thing when you talk about baggage like i believe in that i believe that all these people that you've been with can you can bring that into the next you can also cut the cord as well absolutely so for me it's like so how accessible are you because then that changes things like are you really picky with who you're exchanging energy with that to me is important yeah yeah yeah i'm not i'm 33 years old i'm not having a conversation about like body count like in my mind that's not like something i'm ever bringing up um i just don't care again like every every step that you have taken to arrive here it's written so for me to like get caught up on all these insignificant really details like i'm more concerned about do i like you as a person do i like who i am when i'm with you can i be more of myself with this guy these are the three questions that mean the most to me so all that body count and you know all that other stuff before to me it's just like yes like it's very talked about in pods but it's like where how are we moving this conversation forward in like a productive way because it's like okay i don't want to go who's been with a bunch of guys okay well i don't want a guy who's been with a bunch of great now where do we go from here you guys we want somebody pure okay but you're not you're asking for something that you're not like 100 like are you waiting or have you waited till you are married or no no that's what i'm saying so you're not really pure either you see what i'm saying i think it is a double standard like like dudes really have a double standard on that i'm not saying a double standard is right i think that i'm not saying it's right i just think it exists for some for whatever reason it is i don't know if that's going anywhere like like i said there's someone out there for anyone but i do think that that double standard exists and i i think talking about it and and getting the perspective from both sides like it does matter because putting ourselves in your shoes like we would we would we would be mad if there was a double standard dudes definitely definitely try to try to like i said have those double standards you have been in the public eye for a long time you've been on you know social media i'm not sure how you got the you know the notoriety you got i remember watching some videos back in the day of you being very outspoken about certain issues what were some of those things was it mostly advocating for women or was it like what back in the day were you speaking on mostly and have those views changed at all as you've gotten older or do you feel like you're still the same britney as you were well i think my heart has never changed so there's pieces of interviews videos that you'll find that it still reflects who i am and where i am today i think for me um a lot of girls coming up it was the ones who were more quiet everyone has their own way of teaching don't get me wrong but like i feel like there were a lot of things that were unspoken and if i only have value because you don't know my truth then i don't really have value so it's like for me i just found myself like what what is there to be ashamed of so when i'm openly talking about my body count on shannon sharp or whatever what is i'm gonna be ashamed for what you know what i mean so i just feel like for me people just need to be more comfortable with their truth whatever that looks like and again it only takes one person to see your value that's yourself every when you choose yourself everything in your outer world it catches up so it's like i will find a man that it also accepts me for me i only need one guy i don't need five i don't even five a thousand guys to wrap around the corner and wait for me like for what so i think for me it's just like dude i'm saying things that people either a have already done b are too afraid to talk about and see i just like and what's gonna come behind it because i don't do apology tours and it is what it is i accept what comes behind my decisions i feel like part of the reason i wanted you on here i didn't even know you get on your first podcast i feel like part of the reason though is the authenticity you've always had you know i feel like speaking on the subjects you speak on and being very outspoken and like that is rare especially as a woman but in both of your situations like the world in my situation too just if you're going to be public at all if you're a public figure at all the world does beat you up they love negativity and all these things and a lot of your guys's situation has come from men so has that has that not that you guys hate men or anything like that but has that has that like weighed on you at all like just you with the andrew tate podcast or i watched a little bit of your clips with the fresh and fit guy and you're just like do those things having those conversations ever just you get tired of dudes no did did you watch those clips we had a great conversation fresh and fit one yeah but i i we had a great conversation really so we spoke for two hours now the clip that went viral was me calling them a niggas that was like the first time just the fact that like when you're when you're saying your points or whatever it seemed like he was like making light of it or joking around and that's fine because at the end of the day i don't question any platforms i'm called to i'm going to teach and i'm going to share what wisdom was gifted to me and whether it's received or not is not really my concern so again i've sat down with andrew tate fresh and fit academics joe budden kevin samuels when he was alive i mean all these people who were supposed to tear me apart and it's really just about perspective sharing so it's like i i love talking to different people even a tyrant can be a teacher so i don't i definitely don't hate men i i think we love men like you know what i mean like we're hopeful romantics like yeah you know what i mean i think i think it did kind of harden me a little bit like to tap back into like my feminine was it took me a long time because i was like hold on i need to i have somebody to raise okay i have to be an example for my daughter and what kind of love she should see her mom receive right so i really had to like look in on myself work on those things and i was just like not i'm like i can't i don't have the emotional capacity right now i need to be at my best if i want the best partner for me and my daughter and i i mean it hasn't been public like have you dated anyone since she was born i she's never met anybody so i literally i'm so picky i'm literally like so picky with who i choose to date um i really have just been focused on mine and zoe's world to this point i feel like because i want again want to be like the best denise like i relied i lost myself so much in that just trying to be the best partner when it was like i need to look inwards and focus on who i am what makes me happy what's going to make zoe happy zoe wants all her friends to come from like over after school perfect like let's you know it's just our world so it's taking me some time i'm really protective i've yet to introduce a partner to zoe um i don't know i'm like my guy might be a unicorn i don't know what would be the qualifications like of a dude uh for either of you to like bring in those situations being a mother now you want to go first like do you want them taking on like a like a father role at some point for your child like what yeah what are the questions i feel like she just needs to see an example of healthy love just getting treated the way that you know a woman should be treated like a queen um and just kind of have that like i mean she has a dad you know so i'm not looking for somebody to come and be her dad but it's like be that figure where it's like she's comfortable enough to have conversations you can have talks with her and have like develop that relationship with her that any little girl needs so that's kind of where i'm at i love that i mean i feel the same way too where it's just kind of like um i think when you have a child as well it life gets very serious where maybe other instances where you were like horse playing and just kind of doing stuff for the plot it's like when you have a a little person running around and um you want to really make sure that again like you said they're treating you with the utmost respect and yeah even though again my son has his dad as well but like if we merge a household yeah that is inevitably going to be a role like my son would look for that so i think it's like yeah you want an upstanding guy you want somebody who is of character who's consistent who's a man of his word who respects you who's truthful all these things you know so you know again i feel like you know sometimes when you have a child there is that negative stigma just about being a single mom but there are people who don't care i mean look at sierra and russell it's just it's she had a baby with future you know what i mean he's not was the best like i like i'm close with russell then he was in denver i was over at his house and the way like he views little future as um like you know he he takes care of him like as he should it's fire now russell russell and there's yeah out there like that what do you guys think are some are some misconceptions about you guys as individuals that like the work because i feel like you bring out the parchment you haven't really been very outspoken i know you you've been very outspoken and you defend your views and all those things but what do you think individually are some misconceptions um people think that oh my god they think i'm so opposite of who i am like honestly like they think i'm just uh out here i was out here for the clout and whatever came with zo um they labeled me as a gold digger a whore slut like all just disgusting things they couldn't be more wrong about me actually yeah so yeah i've seen it all i've like i'm like my comments like and they still to this day seven years later yeah yeah that's tough yeah what about you i mean too many misconceptions to name to be honest like really like couldn't be more true or it couldn't yeah like like it's just the opposite of you or just when you see all the time and it kind of just rubs you i have mine that people just think about me but like what is it let's hear yours first my misconception about me yeah i don't know so like back when covet was happening right like i didn't i didn't take the vaccine like i just because i think you should be able to decide for yourself i've never really taken vaccines my parents homeschooled us and we weren't going to school we weren't doing all that so like as soon as you don't do something i feel like that the public is for you're just labeled as a certain type of person and you're just like it was it was everybody thinks because i didn't take the vaccine all of a sudden i'm i'm trump this and trump all this crazy stuff i don't know how that all that gets grouped together but there's there's countless um just misconceptions that come along with the decisions i've made and it is tough to deal with but at the end of the day people's public opinion of you like they don't meet you in real life yeah they don't have a real yeah impact on your happiness unless you let them like there is times where i get off social media like i would rather just be my family my friends and not even see it because anybody could say this doesn't affect you this doesn't affect you but at the end of the day if you see too much stuff in effect we're all human yeah i mean so i do take my breaks from social media for that reason but at the end of the day like it is what it is that's what comes with it yeah i barely i feel like i really don't post i started really posting a little bit more after basketball wives because i needed to look inwards and make sure that my life was happy privately i'm like i can post a life that nobody really knows about and i take pride in that because it's like you guys are going to say talk to me anyway so i might do you think you're going to do that as well all right yeah you still didn't answer oh yeah um i don't know you know i've joined instagram when i was 20 and i'm 33 now so i think that very early on i was labeled a villain and i feel that in this in this world you're either handed a hero jersey or a villain jersey and i would say even before i really started to just run amok and and be vocal i was already labeled as that so i think for me it's like yeah a lot of people have horrible things to say which is fine um your feelings are not facts right um and also nobody asks but thank you for sharing that somebody cares somewhere in the world but it's just like i don't know i think sometimes too like those negative like those misconceptions and just people being nasty i kind of like the benefit of it because if people think i'm like this terrible nasty horrible succubus harlot horror villain stay away from me like don't talk to me or like keep your distance if you see me like i don't really mind that but i don't know i just feel like there's just a lot of negative things i would say um more recently probably the stuff about just with being muslim and um their reasoning why they feel i um converted i think that stuff has just been maybe more of the the glaringly obvious stuff that has been thrown at me which is like okay yeah we're gonna get into that in a little bit i feel like um what's really weird though is like in your guys's situation the the your baby daddy probably approached you guys and they'll label you guys like you guys are like um trapping guys or any baby mama who's the baby mama of a wealthy person a rapper athlete whatever the woman is the one who gets shamed and gets degraded so i find that i find that kind of crazy um yeah for sure i mean i can tell you the day it's so funny too because the day that i met is that like he we went to the same school the same high school the day that i met him was after practice my senior year we went to um the school like hosted this dinner at this um at this like it was called papachinos it's like this little restaurant in chino hills and basketball team was going to see a final soccer team was going to see a final final so it was just like a intimate like dinner on the patio for us and it was after practice and i told my coach i was like i don't want to like i don't want to go i'm tired i have homework like we have this game coming up don't want to go what's the point i can't even get cute like we're going straight after what's the point you know like we're not gonna and um i remember like that was the first time i had seen him but i had gone to school with him all these years i was just doing my own thing and sure enough like he approached like you know and he approached me and since then like we were after that night we were kind of inseparable and we had our own things going on so it's like nobody it lands some things just land on like people who aren't really clocking it like you guys you really think that i wanted i knew this guy in high school like yeah i never wanted our relationship to be based off the things that he can do for me because i was like that it's not our foundation of how we even liked each other you know what i mean so um i just feel like people just will always find something negative to say about it so um it sucks but it is what it is like i'm not gonna say hey look at me i'm a good person like hey no this is my love no like it is what it is yeah i feel like a lot of athletes that i've met um they're like coddled man children so we definitely are yeah it's like this this guy was good in middle school he had his whole future mapped out yeah everybody from the teachers to the professors to the coaches that's really to me what my experience there are some stereotypes that are just true yeah and i remember i i made a video back in 2018 saying you know athletes are really dumb because most of them are you know it's just like if there's substance it's just not what they lead with so for me it's okay okay okay well then but so for me i think it's like because of playing basketball like you guys throw a ball in a hoop you guys aren't carrying cancer just like we're on reality tv we're not doing anything to change the world this is like cotton candy for the soul but what it comes down to is like you guys are in a have an opportunity to change your whole family situation so you're already fucking king dingaling when you're fucking 13 years old like so then you grow up no real character no integrity your teacher was low-key wanted to you and you had this other who was sucking your dick and doing your homework and it's just like now you guys are expected to be like outstanding men no like you guys suck like it's you know what i mean so it's it's not it's not shocking it's not breaking news this is the tale as old as time but if that's the stereotype on athletes or whatever then why then doesn't that stereotype exist for the women that so many of them flock to the athletes because if all these girls you know if that's if all them know that athletes are dumb and they don't have any character and they know that the dudes are going to cheat on at all most of them you know what i'm saying like then the women who are going after these dudes there's got to be something wrong with them like bad intentions like what we go back to so the stereotype that some of these girls are like called the names that they're called do you think that there's any validity to that if the stereotype really is that athletes are dumb and we're not good dudes and we're going to cheat on the girls that we're with like so what does that say about the girls that are chasing them that's first of all fantastic point relationships are mirrors i also think too when you meet somebody and you see these glimpses of hope like okay maybe there is more to them maybe they are different maybe i'm different maybe he was doing all these things because it wasn't the right fit and then you come to find out that well the best prediction for future behavior is past behavior it's not that anybody can't change it's do they want to so i think that's where you ask yourself you know i think now it's like how am i vibrational match to this person but i think that's a very fair point it's like what what is each person mirroring the back because it's kind of like the perfect storm you're dumb she's smart put them together you know it's like you know it's just so yeah i think it's like you you do think that it'll be different and maybe that's where you can be a little naive and thinking well he won't cheat on me because i know that's what i thought i thought oh he has an old soul like oh maybe these other girls that because they just weren't me like we're i'm a better fit for him it's gonna be a better relationship and it's the same shit why do you think i think i saw a comment of you speaking on um the fact that the type of dude you go for i don't know if this was a true quote or not but the type of guy you would go for will probably cheat on you i feel like i don't know if that was a true quote oh i didn't say that really well i feel like that's a lot of modern monogamous so i don't believe okay well a lot of women's like type or the guy that they like they know that guy like they know that they're they're not going to go for the guy that's going to be amazing to them never cheat on them be obsessed with them whatever like they got a 10 of those guys right here at their doorstep but they're going to go for the dude who probably is going to end up doing them doing them crazy what do you think is the reasoning for that is that just a lack of do you feel like once a woman reaches a certain age she gets passed out and she really wants the the good guy or why do you think so many girls go for something they know is it the nurturing aspect of women or what is it please inform me um i think that sometimes like nice guys finish last like not for sure i'm trying to figure out why i'm like ew like i want flowers from him not him like i don't know i really don't know i feel like that it shows where your emotional capacity is at because are you really going to be happy with somebody who's cheating on you no i better not find out actually but um i think some women now are okay with that because of what they get out of it i don't understand that i'm very much like don't let me find out um but yeah i also i'm just like i don't really want the nice like it's like give me a challenge yeah i don't know no no at one time in my life that's what i thought yeah where i was like okay ew disgusting like don't this guy i'm just being nice to you thing like if he's yeah and this was like where i was at a couple years ago i feel like i was just kind of like i'm not into that um now i just feel like i just really protect my peace and like i said my guy's a unicorn so i don't know yeah i mean i feel for me that um there's a lot of people that they just have a lot of unhealed stuff going on and then so you're not going to attract what you want you're going to attract what you are so um i think the issue with that um speaking from experience because i mean i've made every mistake and i'm gonna probably make more tomorrow but um our self-esteem is in the dirt like you know i it's like we want that again whatever is familiar more again like your childhood like what if you're used to seeking validation or perfectionism or um i'm jumping through hoops that was something for me it was like i have to perform to be loved right so the unavailable guy emotionally was intriguing to me but when you start to understand where these root like where these wounds are rooted in and you can heal it you're not attracted to mr bare minimum that texts you you know what i mean so i think it's um you have to pick your self-esteem out of the ground off the dirt put it put your crown on figure it out get to the root of what you have going on because i feel like for me i've dated regular guys in recent years and not so regular guys it's like i want the guy who's going to roll out the red carpet to the magic carpet i don't care if that's mr regular regular yeah or if it's mr i play basketball or football or like whatever it's but it's i think for me again when you continuously choose yourself your outer world has to reflect what's going on internally so i think people whether that's the guy who's talking to himself in his in your dms or the girl who's chasing the guy that doesn't really want her just you know um you got to kind of look at like how where are we a match and why and do i like this yeah i feel that my last relationship question like where do you feel like um it gets to the point in the relationship where it's just like if it gets to that point you it's no longer good like do you feel like if you're checking each other's phones you have each other's instagram passwords you have your location like you feel like it's it's time to call it quits or do you feel like because i'm sure you guys have been in situations where you've tried to make it work not only for the sake of the relationship for the sake of the kids so like when does it get to a point where it's like this needs to be over with when you have to have somebody's location or you have to blow them up or i'm starting not to trust the relationship's over it's over like there's no point in doing that why do i need to go through i don't want to go through your instagram yeah like i should trust you yeah i feel like if if that's a thought then you already have your answer so it's just you know again like when it i feel like too when you start to get too attached in that way to the outcome i feel like you're already starting to lose the plot and the point it's like you're you're so obsessed with this relationship working that you're missing all of these red flags that are on fire you know whether it's the phone whether it's just a lack of trust but i think it all still comes back to this person's mirroring something that you need to work on within yourself so starting there would be great yeah i have one last question why do you think men struggle with monogamy so much more than women like do you feel like men are simple because some dudes really and probably some guys you've been on podcasts with really believed it monogamy is not for men like men should be able to have multiple girls and it's not natural to lock in with one girl no matter how special she is because i feel like a lot of women get hurt because they feel like oh this guy cheated on me so he must not love me i'm not enough and then her self-esteem is is it terrible but like they don't know that you can love a girl fully like a hundred percent and still cheat on her and it's because you lack probably self-control you probably use probably what but it's not that you don't love her it's not that she's not enough so a lot of guys will take that and be like men just aren't supposed to be with one woman um do you guys agree with that or do you feel like it's a lack of self-control or why do you feel like even if you're the perfect girlfriend you could still get cheated on yeah what are your thoughts about that i think my question would be before we answer do you believe in monogamy monogamy um i do i think i do believe in it because i grew up with a mom and dad they're still married after 30 some years they had eight kids homeschooled all of us um so i grew up seeing that but a lot of my friends a lot of guys in the nba they don't they don't believe that's like natural for like a man and i see why like when you have all these options and you you have a wandering eye like it is hard now it's you get on your phone and it's right if your girl's annoying you making you mad you can just it's so easy i i personally feel like it's a lack of self-control probably and just um but if you really are seeking peace in your life and happiness i feel like one woman it will bring you that more than multiple to me yeah i think i like like they just have so many options and it's so easy and i feel like women too we kind of did ourselves some women did our like i mean as a collective did us a disgrace because here you are accepting and willingly being that side or whatever it is and making it so easy that you ruin it for everybody yeah especially nowadays because girls have gotten in that mentality of they're they're trying to be dogs yeah and they think it's like it's something to be proud of it's disgusting like oh i got this dude's i got this dude wants me disgusting yeah there was a point in time it uh the women before us they they had no rights it was to be seen not heard yeah this is the most freedom we as women have had collectively in just career invisibility and using our voices and being in prominent spaces so i feel like at one point in time uh the dad would go trade his daughter for three cows so it's like how far back are we going because we can compare monogamy to it's not natural because animals don't do it there are several animals especially birds and birds can fly anywhere there are monogamous so if the bird can fly anywhere in the world why would they leave with just one bird i didn't even know that was a fact ravens are monogamous eagles are monogamous vultures are monogamous that's why i'm like there's a lot of birds and just in general i love birds but um that are monogamous so my thing is is like i think it's more disgusting for a woman to be like that no i think at the end of the day that people are a vibrational match this is a game that we are in this is a feedback system okay well let me let me rephrase that if a man a man can completely love a woman and still i feel like i feel like i need a drink do you feel like that a man can completely love a woman and still cheat do you agree with that or no he doesn't love you fully you don't love yourself yeah period it's not about this woman isn't enough she's not popping pussy in a handstand you as a man there is something lacking within you because at the end of the day like the deeper the bond and the commitment everything is heightened in it from conversation to sex that everybody's so their panties in a bunch about like everything is better when you have like that best friend like we go to the movies and it's just amazing because this is my is my friend like the deeper the bond the the further you really go you know what i mean you're going being able to go to the bottom of the ocean floor is what life is all about what you're speaking facts so it's like that's why it's like one of the other it's just like what what reality do you want to experience whatever that answer is just be sure that you're okay with accepting whatever comes behind it if you want to go out and and a hundred guys in a week just be sure you can take on whatever repercussions come with that spiritually emotionally physically mentally just my biggest thing is not go 100 guys in a week and it's not wait until you're married it's whatever you do you just make sure you stand on that and you accept whatever comes behind it and be proud of what be proud of the things that you do that's really where i stand with that so i don't like compare one of the other it's what do people want to experience it's not even wrong it's what do you want to experience what do you want to experience in this life there's a buffet have whatever you want just accept if you get sick from the crab legs that's on you i agree with that so that leads me to my next question i want to transition to you obviously have um you're you're muslim now and i want to talk about the transition to that what led you to that point and what led you to be so dedicated in that space what were you before you were muslim spiritual just spiritual and i'm right back right there oh it's not that i'm not muslim it's that i was in a rebuilding purification process of my life and when you completely demolish a house you have to have some type of blueprint right you're not just going to just start putting up pillars and there has to be a map islam was the only thing that only religion i've ever been drawn to i don't like rules and my background is very spiritual so i go from pacific ocean to a religion puddle that's any religion this is not an attack on islam because it's all the religions are beautiful in their own way um you don't need religion let me say this hold on um i don't feel like i don't feel like talking about this like people expect it to be worded perfectly i know it but the thing is is that i have not talked about it since i took my hijab off and there are plenty of born muslims who are not in hijab there are plenty of muslims billions there are two billion muslims in the world i'm sure there's hundreds of thousands that are not in hijab especially in the west um i think religion is a tool just like numerology and just like astrology it was a tool that i used to really build a solid foundation where i went from far left to far right and now i'm in a place of harmonization so i think for me um what inspired me was that my soul was very tired um you again i can see i see god when i'm when i see the sunset i see god when i look at the ocean i see god when i just am outside in the grass and it's like you don't need specifically religion to have a relationship with god but i think when you don't know where to turn and you don't have a foundation like i didn't grow up religious i grew up raising my grandparents unruly making my own rules so i think for me i i went back to the basics learned about the foundation and was like okay i'm gonna eat the meat spit the bones and this is where i'm at for religions like islam or christianity that say like you know this is the way to god they're they're not they're pretty firm on like you know there's not multiple routes there's not multiple ways to god they all have their own truth and yeah that's the route i feel like islam is similar to christianity in that way so how do you how do you like put that together with like people that are just spiritual and they seek god in this way i see god in that way because i feel like in religion they will all say like this is the one way to god like in islam i don't know the specifics of the religion but aren't there all these like qualifications you have to do to reach god and and and the the yeah so what do you think about that because there are people out there that believe that you can just anybody can reach god in any different route and then there's people that believe that this is the one way um now that you've experienced kind of both sides of that you where do you stand with what just like seeking god like can is it through a religion you don't view it as through a religion anymore correct i think different people need different things and i do not judge how people learn because for me like i said i went from pacific ocean to a religious puddle i think spirituality is very broad and i think you understand when you are able to like the bigger picture is frameless right so it's kind of like why would i say unless i'm in a cult that there's only one way to something because us having to all think the same that is the beginning of a dictatorship that's the beginning of a cult that is a lot of things that to me that just don't align with where i'm at um so i believe personally after just experience i i mean i went full in like there are people who are born muslim who are still not in hijab today the second two days three days before i took my shahada i was in hijab before i even took my shahada so i just feel like there are different things that people need throughout their journey and i feel like even when i had the hijab on it was like an invisibility cloak like nobody could see me so that was a layer of protection that when i was rebuilding myself from the dirt that i needed so it's just like i think different people need different stuff and to say that one way is it i think is incredibly irresponsible and just foolish so it's like there are plenty of people who tell me all the time who write me that i'm see you in hell sister like well you'll be right there with me babe like you know so i just feel like you know um i think you can implement all things um just because i'm not in hijab i'm still muslim in my heart just as much as i love astrology just as much so i love numerology just as much as probably back in 1876 i was considered a witch and burned at the stake i'm all of those things i don't have to like get discount one part you know of myself because this is who i am i feel that for a lot of christians i've experienced and i see that if you're a christian and you're not practicing it perfectly in their eyes it's the people that are supposed to lift you up and pray for you that end up tearing you down yeah and your experience if you aren't practicing perfectly how they want to like you said you receive comments have you have you experienced that it's from those same people that should be like lifting you up that are tearing you down the most yes i feel like that's a big problem in christianity that leads people away from even wanting to mess with it because it's the christian people that are the most judgmental the most hypocritical the most um pointing the finger and it draws people away even though that's not god doing that that's that's flawed people doing that but is it this have you experienced the same thing well of course um i feel like some of the nastiest comments were from people who i go to their page and you're muslim i think you would have to really sit back and wonder if this religion is so effective and there's only one way to to i guess be right in the eyes of god then all these people who are practicing how are and how and why are they missing the mark is there something in the curriculum is it just the lack of comprehension like where where are we not aligning here because if it's such a beautiful religion well then we shouldn't breed beautiful people of beautiful understanding right so then now it's like okay well it's clear to me that irony is truly spectacular and um i don't need a religion to be a good person i don't need any religion to smile at somebody on the street i don't need a religion to do good and be good you know i understand there is a creator that'd be foolish to think we're just running amok here just unsupervised you know but um i think it makes me wonder i question all religions if if the people in it are the most judgmental something isn't right in the water i think that too that's what i think a lot about about about about christianity a lot as well like if you if you are hearing from god if you have the holy spirit if you then then why is it not being shown in the way you live your life sometimes in the way you relate to people i think about that all the time and i also feel from even going to the mosques and i have seen and experienced myself any man who's like a kind of like a preacher who tried to have sex with me so it's like the people who are in these positions who should be the most devout leaders in that community quite contradicting here i am months into my journey telling you no but you are leading the moths that's that's that's the toughest thing for me so it's the people that are supposed to be in the word the most be praying the most be the closest to god that fall and shorten or while and out on the side and then they get exposed for i i've there's been theologians who have been exposed and i always question like how if you're the most you know educated on the bible you're speaking to god the most you're leading the christian community how are you like it that is something that is tough for me as well but i want to add to that is that even in that experience my empathy for him deepens because i think sometimes people wear religion and i can even speak from my experience too i think it is something that when i joined islam i felt like it was purifying me i felt better and more it it is like sometimes people cloak themselves with religion to have the appearance of being good because when i'm in full hijab or i'm in a niqab people automatically assume they don't know what's under here they don't know what's going on they're assuming i'm good so i'm benefiting from what religion brings that like that stereotype um but with even the imam it's so extreme that there's no room for humanity like there's no room for him to be a human like if i was in a different place i would have easily like had sex with him you know what i mean like what do you mean duh i would have you in the next week but it just where i was at it just wasn't it just wasn't where it was at that time i'm purifying you know but i think that's what actually made me feel for him because you know he hadn't experienced life he was married for a long time had eight seven eight kids and was with one woman and then here you are like you're divorced now how do you date so my empathy deepened for him because i'm like you that's what you you want to try the buffet of life and you just are like but that's not you know i feel like that's an amazing place to get to when people either wrong you or they're just bad people in life instead of judging having empathy like that shows where you're at in your life and that's really remarkable to me um what about you where are you at in your walk with everything i mean i was baptized so i was i was raised like catholic like we my parents and family did we went to catholic church but as i gotten older um i found myself on the christian side of things like i'm a christian um but uh to piggyback off what you said too it's like i know in my heart and i feel like um where i'm at i'm i don't go to church like every week or i'm not doing the things that we're technically supposed to be doing like we all sin differently i feel like but like in my heart like i believe in god i try not to just like it's like my guideline that keeps me center to myself like i want a man who also believes in god and can when he's messing up or something's going on he looks at himself and is like how am i gonna make how how would god what would god tell me to do right now yeah like i want that to like set real him in yeah you know and it's like not like you have to go to church all that we have to do all these things but it's like it has to center your life yeah being known that there's someone over this whole thing like watching and and that's that's that's a good thing i also just think religion too it's a guideline it's not a law book so agree my last question for y'all is y'all are both obviously have your own things going on you know never needed a dude whatever talk about talk about a little bit about um the i i feel like you you have businesses going on correct and i don't know what you got going on but what's what y'all got going on like day to day like what's y'all's lives look like how are you how are you making a crack is it is it mostly social media for you i've heard you have some businesses as well i mean i'm i'm day to day i'm moment to moment social social media has changed a lot the way that i've made my money has changed um i think you know companies have smartened up too and and then it's also the over saturation of a girl will take free clothes over money who's still you know so uh yeah i'm i'm figuring it out really i don't yeah i mean i think it's like as an entrepreneur and being on social media for 13 years it's like it just changed a lot so you got to adjust with the times i think for me um my thing that i'm focused on is streaming in my own podcast so it's very very entertaining that's what you need to do because no one no one speaks with the conviction you do and has a personality you do you're one of a kind so you got to somehow express that in your own way for sure she is she is what about um so i feel like mom like i've been focused on mom mode and um now i want to get into starting my own business i have an idea that i'm working on right now and then i started my non-profit which is stronger than stroke so that's awesome yeah so that to me has been really fulfilling and um so yeah i'm excited for what's to come with that and to see where it goes um and then my own business kind of i kind of got inspired with basketball wives like there were some things that came up for me that i was like wow i can actually do this this is a lane for me um so just exploring that more more is like my focus yeah i have a question though what i'm curious about is what made you want to sit down and talk with us um well honestly because i've i've seen i've known her for a while i've seen how she gets criticized unfairly and then i know you were in a semi-o situation i know you guys are friends and i've always kept up with some of your videos from way back in the day i watched some of your podcasts that you've done and i've always respected the way that you think and the in the way that you're able to articulate your feelings that is very rare and the fact that you can go in any room and talk to anybody about any subject and you know what you're talking about so it was more it was more wanting to like not have a a debate but have a like have a conversation and and and understand like where you guys coming are coming from yeah in your situations and the way you view things because i feel like these type of conversations um are usually like this side versus this side instead of people trying to understand both sides and have have empathy like you said and i feel like that's what we're missing and that was the whole point of curious mike was not only to have people on here that you agree with or you whatever but have people on here that you can learn from and i feel like a lot of people can learn especially in my shoes like as an athlete as whatever um people think very differently than you guys sometimes i feel like there's a lot of understanding to be had so i just thought that was the reason and i appreciate you i appreciate that i feel like a big part of life too and just like figuring we're all trying to figure it out and it's like i want to understand why people think the way that they think and why they do what they do so yeah i feel really seen it was dope no i'm glad you guys pulled up so we gonna wrap it up man curious mike out