J Cal looks like he's going to a night at the Roxbury. Absolutely. He looks like Joe Pesci. Here we go. He's like Joe Pesci. Is it Joe Pesci? I'm a joke? Sorry, my life's skipped. I mean, you look horrible. Thank you. Absolutely fucking horrible. Okay, appreciate it. Is that your MC outfit or what?

Here we go. Let your winners ride. Rain Man, David Sack. And instead, we open source it to the fans and they've just gone crazy with it. Love you guys. I'm the queen of kinwa. Thanks for coming. This is the Production Board Symposium 2021. Tell us just a little bit about why we're here, David, and what this is and what it represents for the Production Board.

The Production Board Symposium, second ever. Thank you all for being here. We're excited. We have an amazing group of... Science, scientists, engineers, folks from academia, from business, from the investing community, some of our investors. We're excited to share thoughts and ideas over the next couple days and thought we would chase half of you away by hosting the All In Pod tonight.

Here we go. Great. Okay, so first up in the news, Rolling Stone amplifies false ivermectin story. You were following this, Chamath. What do you think this ivermectin... Yeah. ...controversy and... Do you want to give a little summary of what the issue is before we talk about the hypocrisy of it?

Well, on September 1st, Oklahoma news station K4 ran a story and published an article on ivermectin overdoses backing up rural hospitals. The article was titled Patients Overdosing on Ivermectin Backing Up Rural Oklahoma Hospital, Hospitals and Ambulances. First line of the article, quote, "A rural hospital is a rural hospital.

A rural Oklahoma doctor said patients who are taking the home dewormer medication, ivermectin, to fight COVID-19 are causing emergency rooms and ambulances to back up." On September 3rd, Rolling Stone amplified the story in its own article. The only problem was they treated... They tweeted it with a picture that featured people lined up in the cold.

It turns out the picture was people waiting for vaccine shots back in January, not gunshot, and they were waiting for the vaccine shots to be delivered. The story is totally false. You understand that, right? Well, I didn't want to say fake news, but I know... No, it was beyond fake news.

This was basically a doctored-up, conjured article by some person trying to incite a moral mania at Rolling Stone. Look, you tell me if the science of this is wrong. The whole premise is ridiculous. So, ivermectin basically, as far as we know, because we don't know that much, acts on a handful of...

Specific characteristics. One we know to be glutamate, which we don't really express in the same way as like fucking worms. So, yes, technically it can be used as a dewormer, but there are four or five other ways in which it acts, which we don't know anything about because we haven't taken the time to do a broad-based, double-blind study.

I think the fairest thing to say about ivermectin is we don't know what it is. Neither the people that propose to use it as a solution for COVID, nor the people that rail against it aren't really... Really starting from the basis of fact. But then what happens is you have these folks who basically are so turned off by the idea that people aren't getting vaccines, they're going to use this other thing.

They basically doctor it up an article. That wouldn't be so bad because nobody reads Rolling Stone. It's kind of a... It's an ancient brand. It's an ancient brand. Nobody's going there for medical news. Nobody reads it. But then the problem is you get a handful of these folks who think they're really, really smart who amplify it.

Rachel Maddow amplifies it. Jimmy Kimmel does it on a comedy series. And then all of a sudden there's this enormous outrage. But the problem is you can't put the genie back in the bottle when it turns out to be a completely fabricated lie. And then all the people that are purporting to basically push this lie who now have been outed have no consequences because they're on the left screaming at the right.

And what happened when it was the other way around, we basically started to put people in boxes. We basically kicked them off these platforms. And again, so you have this compounding building double standard. That to me is the worst part about it. David, when we look at the Ivermectin story, we also saw Joe Rogan got COVID.

That was a big "ha-ha" moment for a lot of people. And he took Ivermectin as part of his treatment, and then people started amplifying that he was taking a worm drug for horses. Dewormer. Dewormer. And— It's, at best, an antimicrobial. Right. And it's used for both situations, and a doctor prescribed it to him.

He's thinking of suing some folks for treating this. What does this overall say about the state of communications around this pandemic? Yeah, I mean, look, this is really a media story. You had Rolling Stone publish this article based on a single source. You have this one crank basically saying that emergency rooms are turning away gunshot victims and people having heart attacks, okay?

And all they had to do, all Rolling Stone had to do was call up any one of these several hospitals, they immediately would have refuted the source. But they didn't do that. They also could have simply Googled the name of the hospital. They could have simply Googled the name of the hospital.

They could have simply Googled the name of the hospital. They could have simply Googled the name of the hospital. They could have simply Googled the name of the hospital. They could have simply Googled the name of the hospital. They could have simply Googled the name of the hospital. They could the number of toxic ivermectin cases to find out if it was even plausible statistically that you could have ivermectin overdoses flooding oklahoma hospitals but they didn't do that either why didn't they confirm the sources because the article was too perfect it confirmed all of their priors their first prior was about ivermectin they've been waging this war on ivermectin claiming it's a horse dewormer when it's actually that is one of its purposes but it's not the only one it was a it was a drug designed for humans and it's used against parasites now as jamas said we don't know whether it's effective against covid they got to do the double blind studies and we'll find out but that was sort of their first prior and let's face it the second prior was that this is in oklahoma right and so rolling stone wants to believe you have all these mega idiots out in oklahoma eating horse paste okay and that's why they love this story so much and that's why rachel maddow loved the story so much and she then starts spreading it okay and after she gets called out including by say glenn greenwald as of last night she had not taken it down now why because she knows there are no consequences for misinformation and lying why because twitter and facebook do not punish people on the left for misinformation that is sub penalty they only meter out for people who disagree with their cultural and political biases she's not part of the secret cabal that gets the get out of jail free card i don't i don't even think it's secret i just think these people all are part of the same cultural sort of milieu they all have the same political and cultural biases and there is never look where is the twitter warning the twitter label on the rachel maddow post even now saying that this tweet this article is misinformation uh it doesn't exist because it's inconvenient freebird let's talk about the science of i think i would pay 40 for all in podcast live it's dynamic it works yeah by the way you're on the show so okay i'm here too um tell me the live live is the last time we heard a news story that didn't have bias to it what was the last general thing that was reported that we didn't feel had the angle that then elicited emotion either love or hate or alignment or not um you can have that reaction to facts there was an article in the wall street journal just now about like the the democrats proposal on taxes i have an emotional reaction to it but it's fact-based i've got a hundred is it really was it my reaction or no the story yeah they just said that they the the house proposal now is to move the cap gains rate to from 20 to 25 the corporate tax rate from whatever it was to 26 and a half but it's it my point is there are articles written by folks who just want to get the facts across and let you judge whether it's good or bad who knows time will tell then there are folks that basically manufacture because again i think and i think it's matt taibi that said this because it creates moral mania and they want to drive drives the narrative drive the emotion but it's the last grasp of power of journalism that's all they have left at this point is just to basically make it a complete free-for-all and in it they still have some kind of relevancy i have these old new york times uh newspapers like the whole year printed from like 1936 through 1944 it's cool it's like in this huge book and you know but you must have been out all the time but you didn't have time to read those yeah i mean but you flip through these things they're like they are they are just like old like ticker stories you know it had absolutely no like narrative attached to it there was no like these are the people almost the implicit right and wrong right the implicit morality of every decision that's being made of everything that's being reported on i have a feeling the only thing that's going to be left in like 10 years is the economist and then like the mob rule in the metaverse and that's kind of well i mean you also have podcasts where people can discuss these things and maybe a more um honest there's so few great podcasts like that mr mr anti-facebook what do you think of the podcast you're doing right now i'm not sure if you're doing it right now i'm not sure if you're doing it in the future but i'm not sure if you're doing it right now i'm not sure if you're doing it in the future but i'm not sure if you're doing it in the future but i'm not sure if you're doing it in the future but i'm not sure if you're doing it in the future a secret cabal that basically gets to get out of jail free card on facebook and nobody else does millions of people though that said right yeah that's a lot you work there it's exactly the point i've been making right which is that there's two sets of rules if you are part of the in crowd if you share the cultural biases if you're part of the same class whether it's you know socioeconomic or political or whatever that of the people who are doing the content moderation doing the censorship you get a a lot of people who are part of the in crowd who are part of the in crowd who are part of the in crowd who are part of the in crowd who are part of the in crowd who are get out jail free card the rules are different for you you can be rachel maddow and post an article that's complete and even after the entire twitter sphere calls you out you don't post a correction but you don't get labeled you don't get censored but if you're on a different part of the political spectrum you do i mean there's two sets of rules yeah i mean i think i think it's insane i mean this is exactly what i think people have been saying for a long time when people say oh you know it's algorithmic it's not really human controlled there's there's no real intervention and then you find out there's actually a lot of people who are like oh yeah you know there's a lot of people who are like oh yeah you're right there's no real intervention and then you find out there's actually literally something called cross check which its definition is check the hue you know check the algorithm and override it with my own bias that's the that's the definition of what the feature is well i mean it whenever we start down this censorship route like who gets to decide and then what is their motivation even if they have pure motivation there's no way to you know not but assume the platforms die assume everything deplatforms and decentralizes and then like all media is through or through other kind of media decentralized uh crypto based exactly and so twitter there's no longer a platform there's no longer a sensor model what's going to end up happening people are going to click on the stuff that they want to hear confirmation bias it's going to become more extreme it's going to become you know even more heated there's going to be splintering of media creation as there is right now that we see today right every every element of the spectrum will be kind of produced and you're going to end up clicking on the stuff that creates the greatest emotional response because that's what people like to consume how does a citizen who wants to inoculate themselves from fake news bias how do you recommend they go after science and how do they have to learn this stuff for themselves they have to try to become an expert themselves yeah it's hard like anything that's hard right i mean there's got to be a will i don't think that that's really um it's it's not to be discouraging i just think that it's a lot easier to not do that right so it's a lot easier to consume ice cream all the time it's a lot more fun to consume ice cream all the time and to kind of plan your diet eat healthy and work out and all this sort of stuff and i think that's really where you know media is going to be able to do that right so i think that's really where you know media is going to be able to do that right so i think that's really where you know media like a lot of things it's headed media like a lot of things it's headed as we create these kind of feedback loops that are as we create these kind of feedback loops that are as we create these kind of feedback loops that are all because everything's digital everything ends all because everything's digital everything ends all because everything's digital everything ends up becoming its feedback i bet you up becoming its feedback i bet you up becoming its feedback i bet you i bet you if you look inside because like now i bet you i bet you if you look inside because like now i bet you i bet you if you look inside because like now some rabid politician will get a hold of some rabid politician will get a hold of some rabid politician will get a hold of this facebook crosscheck thing i bet you this facebook crosscheck thing i bet you this facebook crosscheck thing i bet you um if you look and graph the number of um if you look and graph the number of um if you look and graph the number of people that were essentially white people that were essentially white people that were essentially white listed from being able to say whatever listed from being able to say whatever listed from being able to say whatever the hell they want the hell they want the hell they want versus what was popular on facebook versus what was popular on facebook versus what was popular on facebook you'd see a left versus right you'd see a left versus right you'd see a left versus right distribution very clearly distribution very clearly distribution very clearly you'd basically see it because if you you'd basically see it because if you you'd basically see it because if you look at it now i think there's a look at it now i think there's a look at it now i think there's a i can't remember his name but he's a he's i can't remember his name but he's a he's i can't remember his name but he's a he's a former new york times reporter a former new york times reporter a former new york times reporter that tweets out every day that tweets out every day that tweets out every day um the top 10 links that are shared on um the top 10 links that are shared on um the top 10 links that are shared on facebook and it's like a facebook and it's like a facebook and it's like a train wreck it's like one normal train wreck it's like one normal train wreck it's like one normal article and then it's like nine like article and then it's like nine like article and then it's like nine like right-wing info wars ben shapiro right-wing info wars ben shapiro It's a train wreck every day.

So if you're a hipster sitting in East Menlo Park, at some point the cuffs in your jeans are rolled up too tight. The fucking shirt cuffs are rolled up too tight. You're just freaking out. Then you're like, "We need to create something. What do we call it?" And we're like, "Cross check." And then all of a sudden what happens is you just start introducing people hoping that then the list that gets published every day on Twitter changes.

But then what happens actually is you find the exact opposite thing happens. That people are so like they sniff out the bullshit. They're like, "What is going on here?" But then they double down. And the next thing you know, Ben Shapiro's eight of the 10 top stories every day on Facebook and that's how you have Donald Trump and everything else.

Next topic. Go ahead. Well, it's going to, I mean, I don't want to believe her. They did it to themselves. Yeah, look. I think you're right. I think they did it to themselves. Yeah. I think they did it to themselves. Yeah. I think they did it to themselves. I think both sides are capable of, both sides of the political spectrum are capable of spreading misinformation and bullshit.

And you have to vary your information diet, right? I mean, if all you do is participate in the right wing or left wing echo chamber, you're going to buy into the Ivermectin hoax. You're going to be storing here from Rolling Stone or whatever it is. So, you have to make an effort to, again, to vary your information diet.

Or masks. But. Or the lab leak theory. The lab leak theory, exactly. We now have five of these during the pandemic alone, right? Right. But see, what I object to is the fact that the censorship rules only seem to apply to one side of the spectrum. Look, both sides are capable of spreading misinformation, but only one side is being censored.

Why? Because the people running these powerful tech companies agree. They're like, you know, 90 plus percent of that political persuasion. That is not healthy. Can we survey the audience and see if they agree? Sure. Raise your hand if you agree with Sachs. How many people agree with Sachs that Trump should be reinstated on all platforms?

All right, there you go. How many people agree that the tech platforms have a political bias? How many disagree with that statement? Nobody. Interesting. So, tell. Phil Doit's wife is a chief business officer at Facebook. Thanks, Phil. Tell us. Let us check you with Phil after the next vesting date.

Requisite hand wrote. Super. For the viewers at home who couldn't see that, because I don't know. Do we have the audience on the camera? No. No. Go ahead. So, it was 99 percent. No, everyone. Everyone except for Phil Doit. Well, and these are Silicon, best described as Silicon Valley.

He needs to go home to Barney, so that's why he had to raise his hand. No, but to be clear for people listening. Phil's wife works at Facebook. 100 percent. He's got it. He's got to say no. It's okay. It's okay. 99 percent. But everybody else here agreed with that, and these are all people who are in the tech industry.

They know. Yeah. They know. They know. How many of us are Democrats? I mean, we're all mostly Democrats, I would guess. How many people voted Democrat in the last election? How many are not Democrats? How many people voted for Trump? Raise your hand nice and high. No, nobody. Raise your hand.

Nobody? No, literally, there's only... That's very interesting. Seriously, take everyone out of here. Here's a question I have. Okay, so we are firmly going down, because I think it's pretty clear to me, I'd be willing to make the bet, that the media is on the side of vaccine mandates.

They want the top-down control and the sense of theoretical safety that a vaccine mandate gives them in their own little bubble, and so that's why I think they support this. I think blowing up ivermectin was a method of many that they've undertaken to do that, whether we believe in vaccine mandates or not.

But now it's coming. It's coming in the LA school district. Biden is trying to push this thing through the BLS. This is going to be a very, very big deal. What do you guys think is the right thing to do on vaccine mandates? What do you think is the right thing to do on vaccine mandates?

Irrespective of all we're going to hear over the next... Government or private employer mandates, or both? Well, let's walk through it. You're saying both? For the government employees, let's start with that. Yeah. Well, the government mandate. No, it goes through the BLS. It says any company, public or private, that is 100 employees or more.

Well, I mean, I think we all agree that people in the military or people in healthcare, they should all be vaccinated or they shouldn't come to work, correct? Well, that's also not even enforceable. Andrew Ross Sorkin tweeted out he had to take his kid to the urgent care. And he walked in and the doctors weren't wearing masks or something.

Yeah, I read that. And said something about not being vaccinated, it doesn't matter, blah, blah, blah. And he like- Well, that goes to enforcement, but I mean- Moral, liberal outrage- The military has said you have to be- And I thought, wait, you brought your kid to the fucking urgent care.

Don't you first need to know what's wrong with the kid? You can't prosecute this person's opinion on masks and vaccines before you figure out what's wrong with your kid. Well, what do you think, Sachs? Military- Parenting, but you're not- Military, healthcare, teachers. I think the crux of the issue is whether employers should be able to require that.

Well, there's two issues. One is whether employers should be allowed to require it, which I think everybody agrees, not everyone, but most people I think agree that private employers, and you could lump the government in with this, should be allowed to test their employees or require their employees to be vaccinated if they want to.

Or at least I would support that part of it, is let private enterprises require vaccination if they want. If they decide, hey, in order to come back to the office, you got to be vaccinated. It's for everyone's safety. They can impose those rules. Now, the question is, do we need to go beyond that to have a federal mandate?

And it's not that I'm anti-vaccine. I just think that's like an awfully authoritarian thing to do. And it raises a bunch of questions. So for example, I have a friend who owns a chain of dry cleaners. He's got over 100 employees, mostly minimum wage in a bunch of different locations.

About 20% of his employees- What is his ethnicity? What does that have to do with anything? Just curious. He's Sri Lankan. Anyway, so- He's the third most famous Sri Lankan American. Keep going. Yes. Anyway, so he's got 100 employees. About 20% of them are anti-vax, and they will not get vaccinated.

So they will walk out if this is required. Do another job. Do another job. Hold on. But he can't run his business if there's a 20% walkout. He just can't do it. So now we get to the soft part of the mandate, which is, well, instead of requiring the vax, he can do a weekly test.

Well, we did that outside here. Who's going to pay for those tests? Who's going to administer them? Is it like they had a nurse out here with the full- Hazmat. Yeah, the hazmat thing. So that's not cheap. So who's going to pay for that? Who's going to do that?

What's the documentation around that going to be? Is that get logged into the computer system? What kind of proof? Does it require a trip to the lab? Or is this something we can do in five minutes? I mean, look, if we had done what Freeberg said a year ago on this pod we should do, which is have these $1 five-minute tests be available everywhere, then maybe that sort of rapid test out would make these mandates more palatable.

But we don't have that yet. There aren't enough of these things. It turns out we still need it even with the vaccines, because no vaccine is going to be 100% effective. And with- Right. But my point is, since we don't really have that solution operationalized, having a hard vax mandate on 100 million employees of private enterprises, that's going to cause, I think, chaos in the economy.

What if we get a variant, David, or if we get a variant, God forbid, that is more dangerous than Delta? Let's say it's- Let's say it spreads just as fast, but it's five times as deadly. Does that change your thinking about this mandate? And where do you stand on the mandate?

No, I think the mandate in this very specific narrow instance makes sense. And I think what we should be fighting about is how we actually write it so that it's not wholly expansive. And the reason is because we know that there is a probabilistic distribution of outcomes where a non-trivial percentage of them results in a variant that is deadly.

And so we can understand the math and we can understand a sense of time to figure out that if we don't do something, and if we don't get to some amount of control around what this is, we're all in really big trouble. So because of that specific thing, I just think this is where, look, the president has the ability to invoke the War Measures Act to do all kinds of things that are super normal.

And we would never say that those abide in normal times, and we've created a framework for him to be able to do those things in non-normal times and then revert to normal. I think this is one of those cases just because I don't think the economic consequences and the social consequences, if we let this thing continue to compound and continue to mutate, it doesn't make any fucking sense.

We're not learning anything. We could have used the War Mandate Act across two presidencies to demand some companies make a dollar test. Yeah. We have 75, 80 tests approved in Germany. They're down to two or three dollars. Why has the FDA not gotten us to that level that Germany's at?

And why haven't we done the War Mandate Act? I mean, we have a constructed capitalist model of let the free market tell the government what is the right thing to do. And so then they invite Abbott, and they invite the guys in, and they're like, the White House, and they have a consortium meeting, and everyone's a little bit chuckling about this.

Like, "Oh, this is awesome. It's another $2 billion payday," which is what they just got. I don't know if you saw. I don't know if you saw the write up today. But the federal government is paying Walmart for the difference between the wholesale cost and the retail cost so that consumers can now go buy Abbott tests at the wholesale price at the store.

$2 billion taxpayer money gone. When we could have had a bunch of smart scientists get together at the White House with a bunch of engineers, take over a frigging factory, and on a piece of paper, print 8 billion fucking tests, and then chop them up and distribute them for free.

And then chop them up and distribute them for free. And then chop them up and distribute them for free. And then chop them up and distribute them for free. And then chop them up and distribute them for free. And then chop them up and distribute them for free. And then chop them up and distribute them for free.

And then chop them up and distribute them for free. And then chop them up and distribute them for free. And then chop them up and distribute them for free. And then chop them up and distribute them for free. And then chop them up and distribute them for free. Instead, we have this problem where we're like, depending on the Korean supply, I kid you not, of the test kits that are like plastic, that's where they make all the like pregnancy test kits and all this stuff.

And these, this like the commercial model is like, tell us how you want to make these tests, tell us what the right model is. And of course, you end up with a $30 test when in Germany, you can go buy a 50 cent test at any liquor store. And so it's constructed, straight up corruption.

And if you can't buy a 50 cent test at any liquor store, it's constructed. And if you can't buy a 50 cent test at any liquor store, it's constructed. And if you go back, like, you know, I don't know if you know this, but the production board's named after the- Straight into the microphone.

Named after the war production board, which was set up during World War Two. It's pretty humble. What's that? It's pretty humble. Yeah. Took the war out. You know, but it was, but the idea was like, how do you take a system level design approach to solving kind of big problems?

And one of the issues that we had during World War Two was the supply chain. Supply chain. Supply chain. problem on making tanks and planes and so they put together a bunch of smart people deutsch knows this better than anyone because he was alive he was alive and he was you can look at the old photos he was there guys you have the hammer before he dies he may be in the factory floor old as and um and there was basically a coordinated effort it's his birthday today by the way sorry la kaim happy birthday happy birthday um but there was a coordinated effort by engineers at the top down to design a system for making these things cheap and fast and that's an approach that i think we lost right like we kind of gave way to this model of yeah laissez faire like you come in you tell me what you think we should do okay that's a good idea let's take photos and we're out and that's it like we don't have a wartime mentality right now we haven't had a wartime mentality since covet hit everyone's continued to try and parade around and get reelected and you know earn votes we're not taking this but we're not acting we're you know like every everything time kind of a business or a government or any organization goes through a phase it goes through a wartime phase or a peace time phase we should be acting like we're in a wartime phase and we're not can i ask you a question if you may three or four of us basically pulling it up some money could you go and print eight billion of these tests in the u.s you cannot get them approved without the fda i'm not asking for approval i'm saying could you do it 100 and how long you could buy some old freaking paper mill and in three months i mean you know this actually people in this room who could do this in um now isn't there a framework within fd a that basically allows you to effectively experiment on yourself there's a compassion there's a it's for drugs it's for therapeutics not for diagnostics so you're saying that if i want you can't build my own test and use it if you want to build it if you want to build a diagnostic test that tells someone whether or not they have a an illness you have to get fda approval in the united states so that's also published the foreign statement is regulatory capture like is one of the biggest issues we have and in related uh news by the way another insane statistic just sorry to interrupt i saw this today i forgot someone we know tweeted this the who wants to guess the ratio of administrators to doctors in the u.s healthcare system 300 to one yeah i saw it 300 to one yeah 900 to one today oh my god and that is up from five to one in 1970.

by the way can i just build on what you said 900 to one your initial tweet said 300 to one and it ended in 2010 right before obamacare passed so from 300 to 900 yeah i think 900 was all obamacare yeah regulatory capture sax is shaking his head which by the way uh nothing against obamacare because i think like coming as a canadian i actually believe in subsidized healthcare and i think the the principle of obamacare was great but there was one fatal flaw which is it basically said okay you know what you're capped at the following margin and the minute that people said wait a minute i can only have a 20 gross margin what do you do you just jack up prices to basically jack up revenue because if you can only take 20 you're going to take 20 of a bigger number than a smaller number and so it completely burned the incentives for any healthcare company in the united states to do anything other than just basically walk prices up and it's funny because if you look at the stock prices of these companies you you would have made more money being long united healthcare than you would have been uh owning facebook google any of these other tech companies in the last decade crazy stat uh speaking of regulatory capture tesla uh got left out of this new tax credit or proposed tax credit insane for electric cars i don't know if you're going to talk about that but i think tesla is a very good example of that i don't know if you saw that but tesla wasn't invited a couple of months ago to biden's ev summit elon responded like i wonder why i wasn't invited it turns out it's because they're not a union shop their employees make much more money than union employees make uh and but now as a punishment but hold on as a punishment the twelve thousand dollar credit that they're giving to or they're proposing to give to all ev manufacturers is only if you have union employees it's forty five hundred less to tesla and that's why they're not getting more money so literally two massive regulatory captures and corruption go or maybe sax no i mean i don't have much more to add to that i mean you hit the nail on the head i mean this is to serve the unions it's not to serve uh clean energy or the ev industry i mean a little bit for you but it's mostly for the unions the um on the one hand what we do is we say that climate change is this existential issue but then when the rubber meets the road if you look inside the infrastructure plan today we unveiled basically how we're going to do all the tax credits and again it's just an enormous amount of just sloppy regulatory capture we're doubling and tripling credits in certain places we're disallowing credits in other places when you follow the dollars what happens is you can map it to companies those companies tend to be mostly public large balance sheets large lobbying efforts and it's not necessarily the most important companies that matter so if you know if i said to you what are the most important companies in climate change you'd probably say well maybe it's direct air capture maybe it's nuclear maybe it's some other thing that basically helps you go to a different place and where does all the tax credits and tax dollars go sunrun sun power these are companies that basically you know have this oligopolistic hold stranglehold on essentially installing solar panels and battery walls in homes across the united states and it's not to say that that job isn't important but to basically explain what's going on in the world and to explain what's going on in the world and to explain what's going on in the world and to explain what's going on in the world and to explain what's going on in the world and to explain what's going on in the world and to explain what's going on in the world and to explain what's going on in the world and to explain what's going on in the world and to explain what's going on in the world and to explain what's going on in the world and to explain what's going on in the world and to explain 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