(upbeat music) This episode is brought to you by Smiles Northwest. When you say hello to someone, one of the first things they notice is your smile. That's why having a dentist you can trust is really important. At Smiles Northwest, they have you covered, whether that's cleaning, restorative, cosmetic, orthodontics, or implants, they are focused on providing the best comprehensive care to you and your family.

Smiles Northwest always invests in the latest technology, has their own in-office dental lab, and are constantly training their team in the newest advancements in dentistry. Visit smilesnw.com and book an appointment today. Are you listening to Let's Talk Jobs, where we give you practical insights into jobs and careers? Today, we're talking about the journey of starting up your own podcast and why you want to do this content creator life.

Joining us is Andrew Cappell. Andrew, how are you doing? - Thanks, Tim. It is great to be here and we're on this journey together. Tim and I got virtually connected through my sister, Jennifer Cappell. Must have been about almost six months ago now. And when Jen heard that I was starting a podcast, I think she saw some of the design and the creative and the logo that I designed in Canva in about 30 seconds, and she was horrified.

So she said, "Go look at Tim's stuff. "Maybe connect with him, maybe he'll talk with you." And so we started virtually chatting and we've been able to keep in touch. And now we're still working on it almost a year later. And so it's really fun. Tim and I hadn't had a chance to speak because we're both doing the podcast as a nights and weekends and lunchtime thing.

And so, yeah, we didn't really have, we weren't just sitting around just hanging out all the time. But now we're, six months later, we're talking and I'm really excited to be here. - Yeah, you know, we totally bootstrapped this thing. You know, it's funny for me. If I had not gotten laid off at the right time, I would never have afforded my time to do this.

'Cause I've always told myself, I was like, "You know what, like in the back half of my career, "maybe the last 10 or 15 years, "what do I want to be doing?" And ideally it's something that maybe is less dependent on income and more passion driven. I was like, doing something like a podcast would be something that fit that ilk, but always been too busy, didn't have time to do that.

So at least for me personally, maybe I'm just bad at time management. Like there's no way it would have gotten us off the ground. Like, so what really propelled you to want to even do podcasts? - Yeah, it's a great question. So I've definitely been a consumer of podcasts for about a decade.

I had a short stint at an early stage startup called Sprout Connections. This was back in 2016. And the mission of that company, it was started by an entrepreneur, was to connect podcasters with their audience. 'Cause it's still the same, but when you have a podcast, you don't really know who is listening.

You get anecdotal feedback. Some people, it's a lot of friends and family at the start, but you don't know who your audience is. And you can see the metrics, but they're anonymized. And I attribute it to Apple, is a privacy centric organization. They just don't give any visibility to the podcasters.

So this was a problem. And I was doing business development at this startup a long time ago. And I tried to actually start a podcast back then, and I just couldn't get it off the ground. And so it always been of interest, but I had a little bit of extra time last summer and just decided that I was gonna try to make it happen.

And it was a lot of work. Now that it's running, it is a little bit less work. It still is a lot of work, but I'm really glad that I got it off the ground. So how did you choose your topic and your audience? And I'll use myself as an example.

So for me, a personal passion of mine is just like mentorship and just helping people advance careers or just create more economic opportunity for themselves, right? And for me also, I have two young girls. So part of it is like, hey, anything I can do to help women advance, especially in high tech, 'cause there absolutely is a ceiling, even though we're making progress.

It's like, how can I lead the world a little better than how I found it? And so I found that doing my one-on-ones wasn't necessarily scalable. And so that was my point of view. I was like, hey, maybe I can create this podcasting where at that time I was unemployed.

And I was like, if I can create a resource for people who are either in the market or maybe they're in a role that's currently being minimized, like it was really rough for recruiters and HRs, 2000, 2002, maybe I can help them realize that the skillsets they have really apply to any industry.

They just need to know what the industry is about. So that was kind of my point of view. What was your equivalent of arriving at what the topic was? - Sure, sure. So I have a story. So I have a background in sales. And after college, I worked in the sports industry for a brief stint.

The sports industry is great entertainment sports. It's not the best place to be in sales, in my opinion. And so I went from the sports industry to the events industry, the B2B events industry, which was a great place to be, but not really on the tip of innovation. And so after three years in the event industry, I attended dozens of trade shows.

I went to Las Vegas 10 times in about two and a half years. It was fun, but it wasn't where I wanted to be long-term. And so I joined that early, early stage startup, which was too early for me. And I exited that, but I realized that I wanted to attach my career to an emerging industry.

And so I actually found, I was living in Stanford, Connecticut, outside of New York City. And I found a company that was a combination of cybersecurity and data analytics. And so cybersecurity, as you know, Tim, is a great industry to be in. And then data analytics is another good one.

And so we did encryption and tokenization. So de-identified social security numbers and put those in an anonymized place in the database. So that way, if there was a breach, nothing bad would happen. And so I had a start at this company. I took a couple of steps back in my career, back in 2016.

I had been a closer. I'd brought in a million dollars revenue, but I had to start as an entry-level BDR. And it was really hard. I spent way too much time with the CTO and our technology team, trying to learn the technology. And that did not make me a good cold caller or effective business development person.

And it wasn't, so I was there for about six months, not producing, really questioning myself. And it was something called Ring the Bell, where when our leaders and our sales team would close a big deal, that it would close a deal with Aflac, Citibank, ADP, Blue Cross Blue Shield, some of the biggest, most well-known brands in the world, they would be an all-company email.

This is before Slacker Teams, and it was called Ring the Bell. And so they would explain the narrative of how the deal happened, how it got started, what the challenges were, what went well, what didn't, what partners were involved, and then what's next, why the customer bought, and what they're looking to do, and how we're gonna help deliver that.

And as a new salesperson, this was just so much more impactful, no offense to the marketing team, but more impactful than the marketing materials, than reading the website, than reading the white papers, or trying to memorize all that, because the customer, especially at the executive level, they just don't care.

And so you need to have the narrative and the soundbites. And it was these emails that were so valuable to me that I, literally, I became a consultant a few years after Protegra Day. I was there for five years. And I couldn't believe that not everyone was doing this Ring the Bell thing.

So it always stuck in my head, and I would actually implement it at some clients. And so they always liked it. It was always good for morale and learning. But it wasn't out there in the world, and so I had a little bit of time, and I said, "Hey, I'm gonna take this concept," which was so impactful to me and my career and my learning, and try to democratize it and bring it to the world through a podcast.

- Dude, I love that. And no offense taken, that sounds like a wonderful value, something that marketing can't bring to the table, sharing the wins and the goodness and insights around how you bring customers in, how you close it, how you lose deals, too, right? All that is valuable input.

I really like that. So let's go day zero. So you've kind of, you come in with an idea of what you want, similar to me, I kind of had an idea. You talked about leveraging your friends and social network to kind of validate your ideas. What did that look like to you?

'Cause for me, it was like, I had an idea of what I wanted. I had a group of Facebook friends and family friends I just rapidly texted, and I was like, "Hey, here's some ideas," and I threw out some names. 'Cause I was struggling with, what am I trying to do?

How can I conceptualize it in a name? But all these terrible names. And the one I really liked going into the exercise was called the Careers Reimagined. I was like, "Hey, maybe the idea is my persona "or my target audience is someone "who is at a pivot point in the career, "and so maybe it's about reimagining your careers." And I had all these other things, and I literally created a poll and I sent it, like a survey monkey, I sent it all to my friends, and it was quickly shot down.

And it was like, that was my first negative response to ideas. What was your first reaction with your peer group who saw your ideas, or even your initial ideation ideas? Was that well-received? Did you get critical feedback? What did it look like to you? - Yeah, it took a long time to bring it to market.

I couldn't find anything else out there like it, so it's either, "Hey, this is a great idea," or, "This is a terrible idea, "and I'm not thinking about why it won't work." And what I did was I jotted it down. I'm a visual learner. I used Microsoft OneNote, and then Mylanote, and then Miro, and Lucidchart, and I sort of mapped out the concepts of how it worked.

And I was fortunate that I had been at this company, Ring the Bell was a structured template, and it's already working, and so I mapped it out as to how it would be in a podcast, quick hitter, 10 or 15 minutes, and I shared it with a couple of folks.

They gave me some feedback, mostly lukewarm feedback, but I shared it with one entrepreneur, the founder of a startup called OrgChart Hub, and Dan Curran is his name, and we had chatted a couple of times 'cause I thought his application was really cool. You imagine an org chart for the roles and responsibilities and the hierarchy of an organization, but when you're doing a complex deal, that is table stakes.

It's really important for the sales team to understand the org chart, to understand the executive priorities, the departmental priorities, and to weave in those care abouts of the different parts of the organization into your solution and how you're gonna help solve those problems. So they created an app that's native to the HubSpot CRM, and it allows you to visualize the CRM, and so that's really important with big deals.

We used versions of that. We actually called them mud maps, and so you take an org chart, you mark it up, you put a lot of comments, and we did it in PowerPoint, and I created some cool templates in PowerPoint, but it wasn't connected to anything. And so I actually pitched this idea to Dan, and he thought it was cool.

He thought it was clever, but we didn't really go anywhere with it, and then he must've had a conversation with his co-founder, and they must've given it a thumbs up, and Dan came back and said, "Hey, we'd love to help with this podcast." And I said, "All right, not really sure what you mean," but what that meant was he was the first guest, and so he agreed to be a guest of the podcast.

It almost didn't get off the ground because we had recording issues. He's over in the UK, and the transatlantic underground internet fiber cable must've been a little bit looser or rickety, and so when we recorded our first podcast, there was, I'm not kidding, there was a three-second delay between when I would talk and when Dan would talk.

So he just thought I was the worst podcaster ever. He's like, "You know, it's a conversation, "not just like a pause and dialogue." So the Wi-Fi challenges, which still happen to this day, it really gave me, it shook my confidence as a podcaster, and I was like, "This is hard.

"I'm gonna go back to the listening." But fortunately, we re-recorded, and that went well. I actually was working with a recent graduate from University of Connecticut. His name is Brett Muni. He was in the UConn Student Consulting Group, and we had met at an alumni event, and he was very creative.

He would edit and produce his own videos, and he showed me, he was interested in some of the work that I was doing at a video production company, and that didn't work out long-term, but Brett and I stayed in touch, and when I told him about this podcast concept and idea, he was pretty excited about the creative project, and he joined me to help edit the podcast, which is so helpful because that is also a lot of work.

So I had a partner. We got the first couple episodes launched. I still didn't have a ton of confidence, and I had reached out to a really big name, really well-respected name in the B2B sales world. His name is Evan Kelsay. He had closed a single software deal for over $30 million, and just as a little bit of napkin math, I know that the public markets and the private valuation markets are different than they were in the past, but if you said that an individual deal is worth, the value of the company is 10x the revenue of the deal, so a $300 million deal, $30 million deal is actually worth $300 million for the valuation of the company.

It's a really big deal, and he agreed to come on the podcast before it had launched. So that also told me that I needed to keep going, and that helped to give me a little bit of a milestone to not give up before it got off the ground. - So how was that final stretch for you like just before you launch a podcast?

'Cause you gotta figure out the name. You gotta figure out look and feel. You gotta get your run of show, equipment. What was that last, the last 5% almost killed me, by the way. So what was it like for you? - Yeah, you know what, hold on. So there was a lot of, so many articles and guides and best practices, and I don't wanna be dragging marketing, but I also realized after doing it and after getting to 10 episodes that most of those articles were actually SEO bait, and they were just trying to give published guides and resources.

And yeah, I read them, but it didn't give me more confidence and simplicity to just get it out the door. So the first 20 episodes of the podcast, I actually used this headset that I used to use as a sales rep to make phone calls and phone calls. Finally, Brett, my editor and producer, he said, "A lot of your guests, "you're bringing on some big guests.

"They have professional microphones. "You need to level up." So I got an Audios Technica and now I'm leveled up. But there's so many resources about all the stuff that you need, when in reality, it's really pretty basic. You have an outline, you have some guests that will work with you through the, you know, as you're getting started, and you just have to have the confidence or the conviction to ship it before it's perfect.

- Yeah, my last 5% really, really almost made me quit this whole thing. Because like coming from a marketer, I'm thinking about persona, audience, what impression or sentiment do I wanna leave on people? So it went down to like, I settled on a name. And by the way, the naming piece was also kind of a gut-wrenching, eye-opening experience as well.

'Cause I'd fallen in love with recurring as imagined. And I kinda like you, I brought in a friend who I previously worked with. He still works with me now. He actually does my post-production work. But he kicked out all of these like icons and logos. I was like, "Hey, look, here's an idea of a icon, "a cartoonish style they wanted.

"It's kind of fun and friendly." I was looking at like Joe Rogan and all of their kind of icon. I did all these icon studies. And then I sat down with my friend who, I solicited for feedback. He was like, "I'm not feeling this careers "and re-imagined thing." I was like, "Why?" He's like, "Well, who's your target audience?" I was like, "Well, I'm going for people "who are maybe laid off or unemployed and blah, blah, blah." And he's like, "Careers imagined to him felt too limited." So if you're gonna focus just on the audience who's unemployed, why not just focus everyone?

'Cause everyone is kind of job-seeking. I was like, "Oh, shoot, you're totally right." And that made me realize that name itself was then limiting 'cause not everyone is re-imagining a career, right? And so I had to start all over with my naming exercise. I had to start all over with the creative.

And again, coming from marketing, colors matter. And so I come with all this experience on studies on color association. For example, blue is used by Meta, Cisco, AT&T, you name it, because blue from a B2B point of view conveys confidence. And so that's why everyone uses freaking blue, right?

When you look at blue and you wanna have calls of action, like what's the color wheel? What's the opposite of blue? It's orange and yellow. You pair this together, it's really powerful. Similar to like purple and yellow. So you take like the Los Angeles Lakers, like their logo is iconic, it's distinguishable, and it makes a lot of sense.

The typeface Lakers is readable over purple, right? So there's all these things that I look into. And so I was at the last stretch and I decided I was gonna either pull the plug and then I got saved. There's a company agency called John and Jane who had previously worked at a previous company.

They're like, "Hey, we're seeing what you're trying to do." 'Cause I'd kind of narrated my progress. And they're like, "Hey, they allocate some pro bono time "to do some work." They're like, "Hey, we love your mission, "what you're trying to do." So they came in and they're a branding company.

And so they came in, we did a whole rebrand study. And that turned into what you see now. It's the orange and the blue. We've done very intentionally. We had iterations on like color versus black or gray scale. So that turned into a nth hour redesign and rebrand of the whole thing.

- Wow. - And I had to recreate all the assets. When you reached out to me and said, "Hey, you put those color panels out." I was like, "Oh my God, we literally just redid that." And the fact that it even like kind of registered on your radar has been interesting.

I was like, "Oh, like this has gotta be real." But yeah, I remember that the last stretch, thinking about the details around like, "How am I gonna content syndicate this thing? "How am I gonna publish it? "What's the cadence?" And I had already locked down and recorded a few episodes.

I felt pressure to get them out there. But man, it was just, it was rough. And again, just like launching a product, I was so critical about every single little thing. So I was like, "What can I let go and just be at peace "and just let it get into the wild and see what happens?" What's really interesting about both of our journeys is that I had different pain points and I know what I don't know about design and creative and Canva.

Like with Canva, there's all these templates, but I didn't wanna just like throw something together. And I really have to give a shout out, maybe you can put this in the show notes, but it's a blog post article or a framework by a mentor of mine named Paul Millard, and it's called "Ship, Quit and Learn." And so it's saying like, "Hey, if you're gonna start something new, "don't worry about, don't look at Joe Rogan's stuff "and don't look at all these experts "and don't make it perfect, just get it out the door "and commit to a small milestone." For me, it was get to 10 episodes and just get to 10 episodes.

And then you'll decide, do you like this or do you not like this? Do you wanna keep going or not? And so you're not thinking about the big picture, you're just worried about getting to 10 and giving yourself permission to, "Hey, at 10, I'm either gonna quit "or I'm gonna keep going "and I've got what I wanted to done.

"I'm not a failure, I just, I put it out there." And so his blog and that framework of how he did that was so helpful to me. He actually started the podcast about five years ago and he said, "Hey, his episode art "or his cover art for the podcast "took him two minutes and paint," or one of those simple tools.

So that gave me the conviction to just get a minimum viable thing done and to put it out there. - So now you've got your podcast, you've got guests on here. What's next for you? And what are you trying to get out of it? Is there some logic around which customers or which guests you're trying to bring on?

Is there a point of view you're trying to convey besides obviously the intent of the podcast? - Yeah, selfishly, I just enjoy having these conversations and meeting interesting people from around the world, from different industries. I'm a sales, a B2B sales consultant. Now, the folks that I interview on the podcast are mostly sales reps, some sales leaders.

So I'm not interviewing folks to get customers from it. It's not a demand gen or customer acquisition strategy. I've seen that with some podcasts and I'm not against that in any way. But the podcast is really just about talking to sales reps and sales leaders and hearing the story of their biggest or favorite deal.

And I just enjoy pattern matching as a consultant. I've now talked to 25 really amazing sales folks and heard these stories and am able to kind of see how different industries work. I've only worked for a few different companies, but now as a consultant, I've delivered about 20 projects and then I've had these 25 conversations and I can kind of see how sales is different in different segments and different markets.

I will say that the enterprise sales reps who are selling to the biggest companies in the world, there's a reason that they make the most money and they have the best storytelling capabilities and 'cause it is not easy. And that's, you can a little bit tell based on how big the deal was, how it all fits.

- So actually we went this whole time without even naming your podcast. We probably, I'll probably edit it back in the beginning. - Yeah, yeah. - You want to just introduce your podcast, your name and I'm gonna find you. - I'm Andrew Cappell. I'm the host of "How The Deal Was Done," Deal Stories podcast.

We're at 25 episodes and we interview sales reps and sales leaders and learn about their biggest and favorite deals that they've closed in their career. - That's awesome. So now that you've done this, are you gonna take this knowledge and transfer it to other projects? Are you gonna double down on this?

Like what's your plan? - So we're gonna look at the B2B buying journey. Tim, you know this well on the marketing side and the reality is that sales reps are not going anywhere, but most of the buying journey happens without the sales rep in the room, which is why the website is so important.

Digital assets, creative content, podcasts, videos, webinars, all this stuff is incorporated 'cause it influences the buying committee and the decision makers. And so I'm having these interviews with these amazing sales reps and sales leaders. We're hearing how the deal was done and the podcast follows the same exact format for every episode.

Hey, what's your background? Tell us a little bit about yourself. How did the deal get started? Why did you choose this deal? What were some of the challenges? And then what were the learnings and outcomes? So it's those same four sections every time. And you look at it and you're saying, well, 85% of the buying journey in B2B is spent without the sales rep in the room.

So yeah, I'm getting the story, but I'm really only getting at most 15% of the story. So we've actually done a couple of special edition pilot episodes where we bring in the buyer and the seller and we have a joint episode. It's really easy for me as a podcaster because they know each other well, they have a relationship and they're just catching up and they're sharing details that they did not share with each other during the sales cycle.

So we've done a couple of these with global buyers from IBM, from Uber Eats, and some large million dollar plus deals. And that is starting to take off. So I'm looking to double down on that and saying, hey, we could actually do something pretty cool here where we bring the buyers and the sellers together.

And it could be educational for the listeners, for marketing, for a pretty wide audience. So that's where I'm looking. That's what I'm most excited about right now. - That's fascinating. I would totally, I mean, I would listen to your episodes, but I would absolutely listen to that 'cause there's like, even from a marketing point of view, I'm always trying to figure out like, do I understand the buyer and how can I present enough information to them to make your job easier 'cause they come in educated as a prospect, right?

And so I would love to hear that. In these conversations, obviously there's sensitivity around divulging too many details, right, that you need to either your company or company name. Do you find that being like, do you have to provide guidance and structure on what they can and can't share?

Do they self-censor and that kind of leads for weird pockets of conversation 'cause they can't talk about stuff? Like, how do you navigate that? - It's a spectrum and it was definitely one of the reasons that I thought the podcast might not work where I was second guessing myself as to, hey, like, is this even gonna be real?

Is this gonna be useful? Are we gonna have to remove too much sensitive information from who the exact buyer was, what the company was, who they were buying and selling to? But what overcame it is that sales reps are really good storytellers. So they can tell good stories and the narrative and they like to talk and share these types of details.

So most of the time, I'd say it's about 50/50 of if they name the exact company and the exact, if they name names per se, or they can generalize it a bit, abstract it a bit. And we get, we're not trying to get anyone in trouble. We're just trying to have these type of a conversation.

And if someone said something that they should not have said we can either not publish that podcast or edit it out. It really doesn't happen very often. And I've had folks from publicly traded companies, international companies, big corporations, and knock on wood, we haven't had any issues with it so far.

- That's awesome. I've had to censor a few of mine and edit some things out 'cause there's certain folks in certain roles of the organization where they're closer to legal or PR, for example. And so they're a lot more like particular about what they can say. And then they'll, in those cases, I just send like a rough cut to them and say, hey, look, let me know if I should remove anything 'cause I don't wanna get you in trouble or whatnot.

Yeah, I'm even thinking for myself, what's next? 'Cause I'm looking kinda like you when you said, when you jumped into this and not many people are doing it. And so either it's the right thing to do or maybe there's a reason why no one's doing that. Mine was like the opposite where like there's a lot of content like this, but it's usually either like a 10,000 foot view where it's like just big heads talking about big things, or it's like top five things you need to know about answer blank.

And it's like, maybe it's on or it's off or whatnot. What there wasn't was just this genuine, transparent conversation, which I was refreshing. So that's why I did this, but I'm looking at other people who do something similar. And usually they call to action for this type of a content, which is like educational, right?

It's like either speak engagement or I'm gonna release some templates that you can sign up for. And I like how Zoom just did a little movie there. Actually, I don't know if that was a value add feature. I digress. - It catches attention. It catches attention. - I mean, too bad for people listening to this on an audio format.

They won't get that. But basically I just did a thumbs up. Zoom threw the little emoji up. Where it totally backfired was I was in this meeting, Andrew, where someone's relative had passed away. - Oh no. - And so I was just like, "Oh, that's terrible." You know? And like it threw celebration balloons.

I was like. - I've never done that. - Oh man. I was like, it was so bad. I was so embarrassed. And I was like, so I turned it off immediately. - Sympathy balloons. Yeah. - Sympathy balloons. Yeah. And then they had thumbs up. And everyone was like, "Oh my gosh, it's terrible." See, where was I?

Oh yes. So speaking engagements or trying to use it as a demand gen tool, like you mentioned earlier, where like you're selling templates and whatever. But like for me, I don't know if it's 'cause I'm lazy. That's probably a part of it. I just don't feel like doing any of that.

Maybe if my decision was to make this as my primary thing, like content creation is life. Maybe my approach would be a little different to this. 'Cause even like I'm looking at you, like the pace that you're creating content, it's fantastic. And like, for me, I have a huge backlog of stuff and I'm my own critical path.

- Yeah. - So I think velocity is one thing I'm trying to figure out. I'm trying to figure out how to tell different types of stories. And so I've always wanted to do on location. - Yeah. - And so like, I actually wrote the script using chat GPC to help do research on like firefighting.

Like not everything has to be right. And learning the history of firefighting. And then with that, I wanna go on location. - Wow. - And my end goal there is to bring awareness. - Yeah. - So very different things. I think about doing that next, like a lot of on location things.

- Yeah. - Part of this is the entertainment value as well. - Yeah. - 'Cause for a business audience, we can take this only so far. It's not gonna get like 5 million views. - Yeah, yeah. - But it's just a different beast. - Yeah, yeah, that's cool. Would you look for a grant or a sponsor or some group to help facilitate that of like the, there's a group that helps recruit firefighters or something like that, that could help to set that up.

That could be cool. - Yeah, you know, that's actually a good idea. Actually, I admire you in how you approached pulling in help whether it's through sponsorships or whatnot. I kind of have a little, like still a very self bootstrap mentality, which is probably limiting my ability to scale.

But like for the firefighter one, like the fire station's like four blocks down. So I was literally always my, dude, my game plan was I'm gonna go there with a wireless mic box of donuts and be like, who wants to talk? - Wow, yeah, that'll be great. That's the, yeah, just make it happen.

The tenacity of just figuring it out. That's really cool. - Yeah, and I get, if I can find a way to turn this project of mine into something that gives back to the community in a real monetary way, whether it's contributing to funds or whatnot. Actually, part of the firefighter one was like there's so many people who've been displaced due to California fires and like giving viewers ability to donate to those organizations.

It's like, that's kind of like a pipe dream of mine. Like, I just want to create awareness for that kind of thing. So I don't know, maybe that's a phase two of this thing where maybe it goes beyond, let's talk jobs. Maybe it's like Silicon Valley life or something else.

- That is cool. You know, you said about the full-time creator. I think if you attach your whole identity and your whole career to it, then that opens up a whole nother level of stress and challenges. So the fact that you're doing this, I mean, I have a lot of respect for you figuring all this out 'cause I've actually built a pretty decent team that helps.

Brett, who was the editor, now he's the producer of the podcast now that it's 2024. So he handles a lot of the logistics, the planning, the pre-production, post-production. And I do pretty well with delegating and collaborating with others. Now we're working with some different freelancers on the Fiverr application.

We had a video editor, Bilal, who worked with us in Q4. And then the sponsor, they give us the creative inputs as well. So it's pretty big production. We manage it all in Notion and it's going pretty well. - Yeah, I use Notion as well. I went through like Monday, Asana, and landing in Notion 'cause it's the best free non-paid version of a fully capable tool.

- Yeah. - Yeah, so shout out to Notion. Well, hey, Andrew. - Not a sponsor, but yeah, they're open. - Not yet. Notion, if you're listening, I'm a huge fan. - Nice. - Well, Andrew, hey, just wanna thank you again for being on the show. It was really insightful.

It's really cool hearing how you work through some things. If you're open to coming back on the show to talk about other stuff that's on top of mine, I would love to have you back. - I'm happy to, yeah. I've done the recent transition from a sales rep to a consultant and trying to make that, to bridge that.

So happy to talk about that in the future. - So how can people find you? - LinkedIn, that is the main channel that I use. I see, Tim, that you're on YouTube. I didn't put my content up on YouTube. I was a little bit worried that the view count would be so low, but we actually did just open up our YouTube channel.

Brett Muni, who's our producer, is running that. How the deal was done, Deal Stories podcast. So you can find it on YouTube, Spotify, Apple, anywhere else. And then I'm pretty active on LinkedIn. So if anyone has any questions, I'd love to be a resource and help. - Awesome. And all that information would be down in the description of the video as well.

Andrew, thanks for spending your time with us today. - Thanks, Tim. It's been great. (upbeat music) you