I love old weird internet where you have these hand coded sites and your angel fire GeoCities blog and you didn't have this worry that, okay, this thing I post on here could be amplified to 100 million people in nine minutes. All right. Welcome to Cal and Jamie explain the internet.

This is the show where two guys who by choice spend very little time online attempt to explain some of the biggest trends from the last week of internet culture. We will once again show you that the internet is not real life. We will sum up insane trending stories so you don't have to read about it or feel forced to tweet your political opinion about Kevin McCarthy and immediately be fired from your job.

Hello everybody. My name is Jamie Kielstein and I am Cal Newport. We have today five stories that were trending in internet culture over the last week or so we will give you our completely uninformed take on them. This I think is a particularly, I don't know, poignant wink to be doing this because from what I understand you are in the middle of a social media fast.

Do I have that right? Yeah. My church, which is something I never thought I would say, my church is doing like a 21 day fast and most people are fasting from food and doing stuff like that. My pastor hit me with the last option which he calls a soul fast and he's like, "Just ask God what do you really need to fast from?" And dude, I would have rather fasted from food not because that would make my life better.

Getting off social media would make my life better but I just kept convincing myself that I'm like, "Oh, I need it for work. I need it for what a lot of the listeners probably do." Like, yeah, of course I'd like to get off it. We're not all Cal Newport.

I literally convinced myself that you would get mad at me. You Cal Newport, who writes about social media and not being on it, would get mad at me because you would be like, "Well, who's going to get our stories if you're off social media? That's like your one job." I was your excuse?

Yeah. Okay. It's like the alcoholic that's like, "Yeah, but what if I need to be drinking to close the deal with the Nakamoto merger or whatever?" Like, okay, I definitely. I got to keep Moe's Tavern in business. Exactly. What's Moe going to do? What's Barney going to do? Come on.

Then I realized that was insane and I texted you and you were like, "Oh, that's a great idea." I was like, "Fucking cow." Does that mean it's doing the show? There's two options. It's doing the show today. Either it's this really positive thing. It's like when you're in recovery for alcohol, like going to whatever it is, 6th Street in Austin at 3 a.m.

and be like, "Man, I'm glad that's not me. I feel really good about my decision." Or is this like taking the guys from the A meeting to a bourbon tasting? Is this giving you a touch or is it giving you confidence in your decision? We'll see, man. I mean, you could read the first story and I could be like, "Joe Biden said what?

Oh, that's the good stuff." I don't know. But I think that this will probably keep me off. I did the thing. This is how I quit things often. I don't think it's healthy, but when I quit things, I have to announce to everybody that I'm doing it so that I will look dumb.

I could smoke cigarettes for 15 years and then on day one of year 15, just be like, "Oh, you idiot smoke. Gross. I quit." So then if I do start smoking again, they will beat me to death. So we'll see. I think this is a great way to remind me that social media is bad.

Right. Okay. So I was worthless finding stories and helping you this week. I should give you props. Yeah, that's true. But it's for a better cause and let's hope this goes well and not like my... I think it might be my top five unnecessary Simpsons quotes would be Barney winning the film festival for his movie about alcoholism and sobriety.

And they're like, "And your prize is a year supply of Duff beer." And he says, "Put it in my veins." And then the guy just comes out, the tech just comes out so matter of fact and just hooks IV up in the Barney from the... All right, let's get rolling.

Nope. I was going to... My Barney quote, I was going to quote the one where he gets sober and joins NASA because he's really smart. And then he beats Homer and they go to congratulate him and he takes a sip of champagne and just goes, "Epic." And like freaks out.

And then they all go, "That was non-alcoholic wine," or whatever it was. But anyway. It was non-alcoholic. Yeah. And of course, again, it's matter of factly just walks over and takes a jet pack and puts it on and it's just a matter of factness. This is what... See, all internet culture issues would be solved if we just use the internet for what it was meant for, which was essentially like sharing Simpsons quotes.

That's all. I have a group... The group chat with me and two of my brothers on Instagram is only Simpsons clips. And it's just us being like, "Ah, the good old days." That actually is what it is. But we can just move that shit to text. Okay. All right, here we go.

I'm going to click my share screen button here. We're going to be discussing these for the first time. All right. Number one. All right. This, I found this one. All right. Let's see. Do you see this on your screen now? What is this? This was... Oh my goodness. Okay.

I don't know what it is, but I'll tell you where it's from. So where it's from is... Oh, I see. This is what's trending on Tumblr. So number one, I didn't realize Tumblr still existed. I went to what's trending on Tumblr and just grabbed something from the top five.

So this was like two or three when I was going through here. So if you were on Tumblr, there's a good chance you saw this. My Simpsons reference for you in that moment was when Bart was working at the burlesque house and Principal Skinner saunters in and immediate... Oh no, actually you're more of the grandpa where he just looks at Bart, grabs his hat and just goes, "Doo, doo, doo, doo, doo," and turns around and leaves.

Like, "Hi, Grandpa," and he just puts it on. Yeah. You just clicking on Tumblr and being like, "I got to get out of here," and taking a fast screenshot and then just bailing. So this is... All right. For those who are listening and not watching, these are my little ponies.

And there's something like an insect. And one of them is saying, "Oh my goodness, Applejack, look. It's an anemore locust, one of the most recognizable creatures of the Cambrian explosion." And the other one says, "What's in God's name?" Shared 6,925 times. That's a lot. My main issue is this is a weird sex thing.

That's my number one concern. So we're just wandering into this is just clear signaling for... Yeah. And any time I've been confused by something on the internet and I just go, "I'm just going to Google that. Always a weird sex thing." Always a weird sex thing. Always a weird sex thing.

And Tumblr was really interesting because... I think Tumblr was before MySpace. Tumblr started off, correct me if I'm wrong, as a journaling site. And you would just journal and it was kind of angsty teenagers. And then it definitely was far more left-wing than right-wing. There weren't a lot of right-wing emo journal entries from William M.

Buckley's granddaughter. So I'm learning from you here, just basics. It's like a blog style interface. You're posting a blog style text and image post. Well, and then there was a phase where it was just like hard sex. It went from the journal entries to that was the place where just erotica and fan fiction and just straight clips of just sex became a thing.

And then I literally thought it closed. I thought it was just done. And now it kind of would make sense to me that kind of like the sex fetish people just stuck around after closing. And it has a very sort of abandoned carnival feel where there's just like a Ferris wheel that's broken and just hasn't been used in 20 years.

But under the boardwalk, it's a bunch of dudes dressed as My Little Ponies. That's just the vibe I'm getting from this where they can just be free in the wreckage of Tumblr. That's interesting. Okay. So it's like a digital post-apocalyptic landscape that allows sort of like interesting. You know what, though?

I mean, A, that's based on nothing factual. That's just what I'm getting from looking at this. Deeply researched history of Tumblr from Dr. Jamie Kilstein. Two points. One, that trajectory of going from like one thing to hardcore sex. Little known fact, same fate for pbskids.com. Correct. Yeah. It was a weird angle, a really weird turn that took.

But you know, I think that was, I believe it was Jim Blair's idea. Jim Blair. Jim Blair, yeah. The news anchor from PBS. Good poll. I appreciate that. Thank you. All right. Well, listen, but I'll tell you what, here's the interesting thing I'm taking away from this. I'm not going to say a lot of little pony stuff.

I know it's a thing, but I don't know much about it. But I do sort of like this idea that in the wreckage of once big sites, you're actually getting a return to old school internet. So I actually, so I have a, you know me, this is my thing on the show is I always have a positive spin on a lot of things.

This is great. I love old weird internet where, you know, you have these hand coded sites and your angel fire GeoCities blog. And you didn't have this worry that, okay, this thing I post on here could be amplified to a hundred million people in nine minutes. And so like, you could just have this and it's anonymous.

Like who's this name? Punkett is here. Punkett Dash is here. Right. And what is it probably funny if you're like Jamie Kielstie. Jamie Kielstie, wait a second. And then that's what I noticed, like a little bit of like a pony head in the background of right here. You know, I have a positive take.

I feel like this story has made me sort of like a 1990s libertarian leaning conservative dad where I'm just like, you know, I'm fine with they do as long as they don't do it in front of me. Like I would rather go to Tumblr with the weird stuff I don't get instead of it just like constantly popping up on my Twitter feed.

If that's where, if that's your guys little safe space for whatever this is, um, you know, have at it, man. If it makes you happy, that's cool. Yeah. I mean, I'm asking you because you spent much more time on Twitter, but Twitter is not a safe space for any sort of exploration.

Right. Because it's associated with you and it's so scrutinized. And so it's become a lot more conformist. So I'm glad there's places out there like I don't mess around with stuff, you know, like, uh, not, not taking a big swing. All right. Very good. So we found something positive there.

All right. So let me, uh, let's move on. All right. God, I hope one of your listeners doesn't like write in to tell us like that. It's really some just horrific sex thing. And we're just like, good on them. It is horrific. It's like, uh, puppy murdering and not just like quick and painless puppy murdering, but like it's a whole culture of we find and kidnap puppies and, and, and who are the sweet, only golden retrievers, only golden retrievers.

Yeah. Woodchipper. It's like a terrible thing and they all, but the code word for it is something about the Cambridge explosion. If you can't bring explosion, it's like, we're going to use the like contractor bag to collect the bloody chunks of puppies to come through. And there's like other references for other ways you do it.

Oh, I love that you're out of the two of us, the academic and uh, yeah, that's where that goes. Good work. All right, here we go. Tab number two. Oh my goodness. These are in reverse order. All right, here we go. All right. Okay. So this is a tweet from Lex Fridman.

So if you just see this tweet, you might be wondering why is this trending? It just says, I'm reading a book a week in 2023. This is Lex in his tweet. Um, blah, blah, blah. I'll adjust the list, but I'm going to start on Monday and be done by Sunday.

So he's gonna read one book each week and he might do, he's announcing, might do low key videos of like, Hey, what did I learn each week from the books? And it's a list of like classic books. Uh, right now this is an exception. I know about this story because Jamie sent it to me.

So Jamie wrote something about this, right? You know, so what, why are we talking about this? Seems nice to me. I texted you furiously and I wrote about it at, uh, Jamie Kilstein dot sub stack.com. Um, if you guys want to follow my writing, I read a lot about mental health, but because I was very online when stuff like this happens, I write about it as well.

So people saw this list and lost their minds. They absolutely lost their minds. Um, baffles me. And well, it is because of tribalism where even though, and you know, Lex, um, you know, you can't, you're not going to speak for him, but like I would have never considered Lex even in like, I mean, maybe in my super very online days, like, and he's, he's in the group of podcasters that will talk to anyone despite their political leanings.

Right. So he'll interview, uh, you, but he'll also interview John Danaher, a famous jujitsu coach, but he'll interview Kanye and then he'll interview, uh, someone from fucking AIPAC to cat. Like he will, he'll go both sides. And if you go both sides, people on the left just call you a right wing.

If you've, if you've interviewed Jordan Peterson before, then anything you say will be scrutinized. So, you know, not to get political on the show, but a lot of the people attacking him would have to, because again, the books were innocuous. If it was like, I'm going to read a book a week and every week it was a different translation of mind comp, then I'd be like, buddy, what's happening.

But it was, you know, a lot of just classic books and people were like, Oh, right wing apologist Lex Fridman is an idiot. What are you going to read next? James and the giant peach. And it was just mocking him. Mock. Okay. So, so the pushback was in the form of mockery.

Like these, these books aren't like, why haven't you read these books? When I heard he was getting canceled and he even tweeted, I did not think that by the way, this was on new year's. This was like, welcome to 2023. Lex was like, we should read more. And everyone was like, fuck you Lex and lost their minds.

There was one guy, I don't know if I sent you the tweet, but he's a pretty famous dude. I haven't heard of him, but he was like, this is why I won't go on this idiots podcast, even though he keeps asking me to. And then Jordan Peterson like chimed in.

This is why we should all be off Twitter. Jordan Peterson chimed in and was like, it was like, I don't even remember what he said. And then that guy was like, shut up, Peterson, you're an idiot. And it just erupted from Lex being like, Hey, I want to go revisit, you know, 1984 or whatever you want it to read.

And so what I wrote about, you know, I wrote about one that this is probably something that I would have jumped on, you know, um, back in the day. But you would have put your finger up first, right into the wind. Are we happy about this? Are we just like, that's, that's the way that goes, right?

You're like, you gotta, you have to get the parameters of why we're mad at someone and then you take your swing. Yeah. I mean, honestly, I assumed that when I saw Lex Friedman as being canceled over books, I assumed that it was, Oh, they were all like white guy authors or whatever, but it really wasn't that it was so much lamer than that, where it was just, Hey, this guy's trying to do something good.

And you know, a lot of people, um, yeah, I, I, I think I wrote, um, that my days used to go like this. Number one, see what's trending on Twitter. Number two, see the name of someone I'm not supposed to like. Number three, see what the people, this is the, the, the finger in the air I'm supposed to agree with her saying number four, find a funnier way to say it.

Um, which by the way is easy. Um, and then number five, basking retweets while my personal life falls apart. And yeah, I mean, this was essentially, this was my life. Why don't we try it? Okay. Let's, let's put on, you know, very online, Jamie hats, like go back to the time machine.

Sure. Take your, take your swing. All right. It's like, what's, what would be on the spot? Yeah. What's your, what's your tweet? Very online. Jamie would have sent three years ago. If this had happened, it's a pretty able list of Lexford men to list that he can read a bunch of books a week while we're all struggling at minimum wage jobs.

And some of us can't even read. There you go. It's pretty good. All right. That's funny. Uh, no, I dude, I mean, it would have just, it would have been jumping on board. And here's the thing that upset me the most. Here's why I actually wrote about this is because a lot of people who are trashing Lex and chime in if you want from what you know about him personally or don't, but they were like, he's like that fake lovey bro type.

And essentially they are mad at him. And some dare I say would consider him privileged for he's doing what I'm trying to do in my social media career, which is he is trying to bring people together, trying to tweet about, Hey man, things are really hard, but let's look for love.

Let's see how we can help people. And to me, to me, when I see him, it seems very authentic, but people, social media has trained us to be so antagonistic that when someone just tweets like, Hey, we should all love each other. I mean, every time I tweet something like that, I'll, I'll get at least three or four tweets that are like, Oh, what's your angle or easy for you to say, or, Oh, this fake love thing.

Like, like saying to be nice to each other is somehow a grift. That's another very online word. If you change your mind, if you become more conservative or more liberal, if you're trying to bring people together, it's just a grift. I see what you're doing. And it's like, wow, we have become that nihilistic that trying to be nice or trying to read a book a week or telling people they should meditate or go to the gym.

Somehow there has to be some political angle. Hey, we should go to the gym more. Oh, so you don't think COVID is real. But somehow it has to become political or, uh, we have to find a way to discredit them. And that's what I just think is, I mean, honestly, like it's, it's evil when it comes to social media where it's like, we're attacking people for trying to do good.

That's so, I mean, here's having met Lex, I don't know him well, but I've met him before as far as I can tell, this is, he's just a nice guy. And the reason why that's not, it's not surprising to me. Because there's the shared bit of background that I can have with Lex.

He's also a computer science PhD. He's a research scientist at MIT. He came to my attention because he has on his show, all of these big name professors from the CS department I knew at MIT. And to me, when I first encountered Lex, like this is great that there's probably like a big audience of Joe Rogan fans who are now hearing Silvio Macaulay, the cryptographer, talk about Oblivion zero knowledge proofs.

Like this is great. He's like, you know, he's like, I'm not even on famous computer scientists. It's an interesting guy. But those of us who come out of academia, you know, we're probably too busy doing math equations to really be plugged in the culture. So there's a sort of, and also he's not American, right?

He comes from a Russian background. So there's more of a, you know, Tocqueville in America type relationship, I think, going on to our culture of like, I was doing math and CS, I'm not even from the US. So I'm not, I'm not plugged into or placed into these existing cultural streams.

Like where, where do you sit and what team are you on, especially online? I just don't think that comes naturally to him. And I think that breaks people's brains like that. It can't be because you have a bit, you have to be, well, whose team are you on, man?

What's the grip? Like what's going on? I don't know. Every time I've talked to him, he's honestly seemed like a really curious, nice guy who really wants people to love each other. And also like, man, if you start the less I'm on social media, the more I can appreciate certain things from some people.

I don't care how Jordan Peterson feels about pronouns or some of the stuff he said, that's been like very silly and stuff. But when I first discovered Jordan Peterson, it was just like a strong male personality being like, Hey man, take responsibility for your stuff, make your bed, like fix your problems.

And that was really helpful for me at that time in my life. And so I don't have to agree with everything he says politically or where he works to. I don't suddenly have to like disown the good he did in my life. And I would sort of implore your audience.

I mean, I'm sure your audience is pretty good with that, but it's like you can separate these things, man. You can have relationships with people where you don't agree with everything. You can see someone tweet, Hey, I'm going to try to read a book. He must've been so proud before he hit send.

What a cool little thing I'm doing for myself. And now he's had to respond to it. He literally, it's like he got canceled. Like he just posted a YouTube video, which I haven't watched, like in response to it. And, you know, he seems like he's taking it in good.

I mean, God, if anything, it just, it, it, it proved his point that we should be reading more and offline. Well, if you had a friend come up to you at like a guy from work, I mean, like a good friend, like, Hey Jamie, like I'm, I thought you'd be interested.

Maybe you want to join me. Like I found these old books. I've read a bunch of these before, but I really want to just like read them from scratch. And I want to spend more time reading. You fucking idiot. You idiot. What? Those books are so stupid. Just knock them out of his hand.

Get your stupid books. I read all the books. I smart. Get on the ground. Pick up the books in front of me. You stupid. You know, like it would be, it would be weird. Right? And by the way, man, this ties into a mental health thing I've been talking about on my podcast, but like I do this now as an adult and I was actually just listening to an old Conan podcast and he was saying, Conan was saying how his neighbors, old neighbors thought that he was just really mean to his wife.

And in reality, no, it was him being mean to himself. I'm like, Oh you idiot. Like blah, blah, blah. So like this is a real problem. And you know, I, I was helping this like eight year old girl that I kind of mentor. She was, she was struggling with it.

She was struggling with that as well. I was like, do you say nice things about yourself to yourself? And she just goes, no. And I was like, that's kind of like me too. And it's, it's internet makes this worse. Internet makes this worse. This is internet makes this worse.

Internet makes this so much worse. You don't want to put out good stuff. Do you think that I get excited every time I'm going to post something just like, Hey man, just went for a walk in nature and like, I know life's hard, but if you just breathe in and look at the beauty around you, it's like the idea that while typing that in my head is Rolodexing all of the things that people hate me could say.

And then it just gets solidified with stories like this. It might be a must be nice to have functioning lungs. Why don't you go tell the coal miners recovering down in West Virginia about your fresh air walk? Exactly. Exactly. Neoliberal elitist shill. And you're like, okay, okay, okay. I support the coal miners.

Oh, so you support coal and you, uh, you hate Greta Thunberg. It's like, no, no, no. Greta's fine. Oh, so you love Andrew Tate. What are you doing? And like, I, but you know, I know if I were to call, you know, Trump a Nazi or Biden senile, it's like, Oh, bring me that.

Bring me that respect. Bring me that love. And so we are training ourself. And so then what do you think happens when you go outside? Is your brain trained to look for negative or is your brain trained to look for the good? And it's like, yeah, man, it's going to be trained to look for the negative in the less I'm on social media.

The more I actually do read books and the more I get out into nature and I meditate and I just write to write, um, off social media. Um, the more I'm like, yeah, man, there's a lot, even when I'm struggling, there's a lot of good in the world. And that gratitude helps me with my mental health.

Yeah. So much. And that comes back to the key point, the number of people who are very online and giving this negative feedback, it's so small. And the vast majority of the people do not think in their lives about, am I going to get pushed back about talking about a book?

Am I going to get pushed back about talking about taking fresh air? Like it's so narrow. I think that's, that's, that's what's so critical is how narrow, how narrow this is. It, and you know, if you feel that same concern, it's just Twitter. I mean, Lex should leave Twitter.

I'm going to tell him that. No, I don't think he needs to be on Twitter. He doesn't need to be on Twitter. You should follow Sam Harris's example. Like Sam doesn't need, he didn't need to be on Twitter. Like he has his podcast, he loves it and he left.

I think he's fine. I think he's happier for it. I'd like to need to be on Twitter. He barely uses it. I don't think so. It's so narrow. I, I, once again, my computer is dying. I apologize to you, but now I'm in the cool standing spot. You know, it must be nice to stand with your, tell those pirates that lost their legs and cannonball accidents about all of your standing.

Oh, that's right. But you're probably pro pirate. So again, cow and I, we don't, we talk about culture, we talk about what's being talked about, but we don't need to make this a political show, but it's super interesting that you brought up Sam Harris because I was on Twitter when Sam was canceled the most recently.

Sam's always talked about controversial things, but people on the right have actually really been going after him for his Trump stuff. And so he had this clip that went viral on a guy's show that I know that people are still talking about. I know about this one because I, I saw Sam get interviewed, um, on Bill Mars podcast.

So I actually know about it. What happened on Twitter? Yeah. This is the Hunter Hunter Biden. Our politically like fraught internet bingo card starting to fill up because we have Sam Harris, Hunter Biden. These are all entering into, you've mentioned Jordan Peterson. We're doing it. We are, we are culture warriors.

That should be the episode of this title or the title of today's episode. Definitely culture warriors. But it's so fascinating what you just said, because I feel like me and you are reversed a little bit. So Sam gets off Twitter and every time I see Sam come up, it's, here's another one for the bingo card.

Like Glenn Greenwald just posted about him the other day being like, this is one of the worst things that happened in 2022. And it was that stupid clip again. And again, doesn't matter how I feel about that. Doesn't matter how Cal feels about that. But what's interesting is when Sam got off Twitter and I haven't seen Sam on Twitter, um, and I've actually had nothing but lovely interactions, uh, with Sam, um, recently.

And that reminded me to tell you off air, cause I actually emailed him after this happened and he was great. Um, in my head, I'm like, Sam's done. No one respects Sam anymore because I'm just looking at my Twitter feed. Oh, interesting. And then the other day. So in your mind, in your mind, he's like, he gave away his public status.

Interesting. That's it. Exactly. And he's done. And. Which is completely bonkers. I mean, Andrew Huberman just popped up on my feed, the other, my podcast feed the other day, Andrew Huberman, one of the biggest podcasts in the world. And he has had Sam Harrison. And the topic isn't like disgraced neuro, whatever the topic is like meditation.

And they're probably just going to talk about his meditation app. And then podcast is killing it. Sam's podcast is killing it. His app is killing it in my head. It's over. So interesting that happened on Twitter and he's not on it. And in fact, he's probably going to be more successful, certainly going to be happier, not being on Twitter and not, you know, it seems like he knew that was bad for him.

Yeah. You know, and like good for fucking him. But literally until this, even when he popped up on Huberman's, my thought was, oh, Huberman's taking a real risk. No, he's not. Because Huberman's audience isn't political. They're just trying to better themself. Yeah. Yeah. So anyway, so that to me is really good news for me.

Yeah. That's great news to hear. Yeah. That's interesting. And I think that's what keeps people on is exactly how you felt about Sam. Because you think that about yourself. You know, if I'm not on here, I don't exist. And it's you don't. I imagine like the first day after Sam left Twitter is like the scene at the end of the 40 year old virgin, you know, where he has sex for the first time.

And it's just like they're riding unicorns under like rainbows. Like that's how I imagine his life is like him just like high fiving people and playing ultimate Frisbee. That's it, dude. And and also like it's so great because I mean, I've told you this. I've gotten not bitter, but like there have been times where you've tried to help me, whether it's with, you know, a project I'm working on or my podcast or whatever.

But it's always tied to I'm not happy on social media and please help me, Cal. And you've tried to come up with ways like, hey, here's how you can promote your stuff, but not experience the toxic parts of social media. We talked about this on your podcast if you guys want to check that out.

And then there's always part of me that I'm like, cool, Cal, I'll be successful. Get off social media if you can get me booked on Tim Ferriss's if you you know what I mean? Because I'm like, well, it's easy for Cal because Cal did a fucking stupid TED talk on it.

That's incredibly popular. And so to hear this with Sam, because even now I was like before this 21 day fast, I was like, man, but I have all these like really cool like coals in the fire and like these projects that are about to take off and like, oh, if that big agent saw that I'm like off social media for 21 days, what's he going to think?

And it doesn't matter. And in fact, being off social media, this writing deadline I was on yesterday that I thought was going to take me like a week or two, like I sent in in two days because I'm just not aimlessly looking at my social media feed. And I was writing and like, yeah, am I going to have to like promote?

Sure. But that doesn't mean that I need to be on social media all day. And then Sam is like, what an awesome example, because, again, my Twitter feed, he's like the most hated right now. And I like him. I don't I don't agree with everything he says, but it's like I like most of what he does.

Yeah, there we go. And the fact that, look, I'm not on Twitter. I have no idea why he's hated or not hated. I think just emphasizes if you're someone like in his position, most of the world has no idea what's going on on Twitter. They're like, you wrote that book about, you know, you do meditation and you were like the Christian, you let our Christian nation.

Yeah, you were an atheist guy and then you were a meditation guy. That's what it should be. And at the end, that's like nine percent of the world. So I think use me, everyone use me as your barometer. If I don't know about something, that means ninety nine percent of people because I'm plugged into the news.

Like I know what's going on. I'm a semi-cultural figure. I'm like, yeah, like I know what's going on. I just don't know what's happening on Twitter. So I should be the barometer. All right, let's do let's get another story here. Clicking my share button. Do do do do. All right.

This is another story that was spreading a lot on the Internet this last week. All right. TMZ. Leonardo DiCaprio living it up in a yacht in St. Bart dot dot dot with tons of chicks. There is a picture of Leo living his best life. Yeah, man. Yeah. With a there's a woman in a bikini, I suppose.

So this is a skinny Leo's kind of like chubby jacked, which I think they pick to be like, he's not all there that but like he still looks jacked. But if you look close, it's like, OK, he's getting older. It's chubby jacked. You know more about it. It's just like you were in shape for a role.

It's a muscular. Yeah. Like your gut will come back before you lose all your muscles. Is that a thing? Yeah. I mean, I guess there's definition there, but it's being kind of like overrun. But look at this. This is just old school tabloid. Yeah. Here's like a picture of him on a seat, a picture of the yacht he's on.

And TMZ is trying to figure out who some of the people are. I love that. That's what you got out of this so much because you're right. I would have never thought about it. It's, you know, nowadays you go on Twitter and it's like there's a whistleblower at Twitter and they're trying to blow up Elon.

We know Elon's on the side of the whistleblower and he took over Twitter and OK, somehow Matt Taibbi and Barry Weiss are involved and old school paparazzi. It was like, hey, there's a half naked chick on a boat. You want to look at that and all with the fame and with a celebrity, with a celebrity.

And then we go, yes, I do want to look at that. That kind of makes us feel like we're on a boat with a naked chick. And I wish I was like Leonardo DiCaprio. Yeah. So it makes us feel good. This story. Well, this it's simple. That still exists.

Yeah. It's a celebrity on a big boat. Once again, Cal, this no takes a sweetness that you have in your soul makes me happy. And I wish it could just be like good for that guy. Just just on a boat. Like you remember being a kid, I wish I could get on a boat.

And then you remember being a teenager and being like, I wish I could get a hot chick. And he's doing both in the same picture. But also when we were teenagers, you know, it'd be typical tablet. It serves a few audiences. Right. So it's like the young guys like, that's cool.

I hope that's me. And then like our moms would be like, those women are too young. And you know, but it would just be like, but it's it's an abstraction. It's a celebrity is like an abstraction. Like this guy from the movies. Yeah, sure. We can be sex positive on the show.

Our moms would be like, my wish I was on that boat with Leo. Like we're, we're all allowed to be. Yeah. But like, um, the, the problem is Leo in the last couple of years, if we're looking at Twitter has been despised by the left or by there, I should say by very online people for there he's dating younger women.

And again, if you're a creep, if you're dating 18 year olds or whatever, like that's not good, but also like, I don't know, man, 25 year olds are adults who are making that decision. If it was like Leonardo DiCaprio is on a boat with five 25 year olds, he has chained to the boat.

I'm like, well, that's not good. And you can also talk about like, okay, there are a bunch of like older dudes who like, you know, they're dating young chicks to feel whatever. And like, that's not good either. Right. So you want to ideally be a good partner and you're not, you know, swapping out hot chicks or cheating or we, we want to advocate you being a good person on the show.

But, uh, is that a cancelable offense? Is that just a bunch of jealous dudes? Like I don't, I don't know. Um, but I didn't even know that reaction was going on. So you're saying the very online have, but that Leo 10 years ago was beloved by environmental stuff and an environmentalist.

And then like a couple months ago he was trending for like a week where there was some story that came out that like he broke up with a 25 year old and started dating another 25 year old. So everyone was just like, fuck you. And you know, I don't know, man, but, but, okay.

But here's an interesting thing here. Or is this why this, why this is interesting to me because it's, it's two worlds and there's a scrim between them and it's permeable. Right. Like there's, there's the world that's been around forever of old school celebrity and tabloid like this person's famous.

It's not a real person in TMZ. It's an abstraction. It's like Leo as a one word thing and they're on a boat and whatever. And we have paparazzi pictures and oh, we kind of care. Right. And then on the other side we have the very online world where everything seems to be, you know, it's, it's very personal engagement.

It's very much like we are, we are all, uh, it's like a homogenized, we're all on the same level. We all have the same Twitter. It looks the same and we're all trying to like fight with each other. We're all, you're, you're in it, right? Like you're not involved when you're reading TMZ.

You're like, this is so far from my reality. But on Twitter it's like, yeah, you're in this world and me and my friends are coming after you for the, and it's like a, you're in it. Like how, if you were to see a trailer for a new Quentin Tarantino movie with Leonardo DiCaprio, I assume you would be nothing but delighted.

Because you would go on Twitter and it's just like, oh, racist Quentin Tarantino. Of course he gets, you know, womanizing Leonardo DiCaprio and you know, who's the lady in it? Well, she had a problematic tweet from eight years ago. I was listening to a podcast. Um, oh, who was it?

I was listening to, oh, it was Bill Burr on Conan. I listened to that podcast yesterday. And Bill Burr made such a good point about Twitter where he said, you know, they'll find someone's tweet from eight years ago where they go, oh, you're being a bad person eight years ago.

And it's like, yeah, but he had seven years of just being a good person. He's like, that's like a Lou Gehrig type record of being a good person. And you're going to dig back. And this goes back to the Lex thing, which goes back to the whole premise of this show.

Social media trains you to hate essentially. That's what you are told to do. And if some good news comes out there every time and a new SNL cast there gets announced, instead of people being like, oh, good for him. Oh, we're going to see some new comedic voices. Oh, I hope she's good.

I heard she was a great comic. There's just these slimy journalists just digging through 15 years of tweets to find something problematic instead of what we should all be doing is like applauding people. If we disagree with people, don't follow them. And then trying to make ourself the best person we can be.

And we're just not incentivized to do that on social media. We should all be on a boat with hot chicks and Leonardo DiCaprio is what I'm saying. Right. But in this scenario, I would be talking to him about the cinematography from The Revenant, which is, which by the way, miraculous.

Real thing, natural light filmed with wide angle prime lenses that are put in. I mean, it's a miracle of cinematography. It won the Oscar. That's what's interesting to me. But let me give a hot take here, though. I'm going to let me just be like looking back at the girls being like, cool.

Can we go talk to that? He's like, no, no, no, no, no. Masterful. Leo makes a masterful cinematography. It's like, let's talk about let's talk about the five millimeter fix that you were using for the whatever. You'd be like, all right, Carl, get on this boat. How'd you get on here?

First of all, you're soaking wet. I have questions about cinematography. I want to talk about the use of CGI in the Buffalo scene. The girls are all being like shuffled onto the emergency escape. They just hold on to a helicopter. It's like an apocalypse now. But look, here's a reverse.

Here's a reverse hot take, though, is OK, but we're looking at TMZ. I'm looking at that. That's old school, right? That's basically unchanged from when we were kids. Right. Yeah, sure. Celebrity boat, like maybe, you know, with girlfriends or something like that. Twitter is more interesting. I mean, like we have.

So there's like this. This helps emphasize why this culture, which we have all these issues with, but why it persists is because TMZ, that's also boring, right? I mean, it's pretty boring. It's like, OK, like this guy's fat, like that kind of makes me know he's a star. He looks fat.

You're not involved. Back to Lex's list, buddy. Maybe simple is good. Maybe we don't need these overcomplicated books. Maybe we just need to read some simple stuff that makes us happy, because look what we have done with this knowledge. We have turned into bad people. I see what you're saying.

Where, yeah, when you compare to like the Twitter files and you do like a TMZ, it is very funny just to be like, there's a girl on a boat and I could see her belly button like, all right, sure. Is that dumbing us down? Perhaps should we be going on TMZ every day?

No. What makes us worse? I don't know, buddy. And I'm just talking pure viral dynamics here. So even putting aside any sort of value judgment, it's like an interesting insight into why this is such an effective attention capturing machine for the people who get captured to it. Like in the early 90s, there's a version of TMZ where like they called you up, you know, like, hey, like, Cal, we got this footage, like, here's Leo, like, what's your take on it?

Like you're in that room from the old syndicated TMZ TV show. Remember that? Where the guy had like the big cup of soda, like the giant cup. Yeah. And they're all like in there, like, what stories do you have? And like, you are in there, you'd be like, this is awesome.

Like, this is so interesting. Like, I can give my take. And you'd be like, I think those women look too young. And like someone else high fives you would be great. Right. So it simulates that for hundreds of thousands of people. You all feel like you're in the proverbial TMZ room.

I'm just saying to give some insight into why for the people who fall into the Twitter culture, it is so magnetic because it was better from just a pure stripped of any actual value evaluation, stripped of any judgment on whether this makes your life better or not, because spoiler alert, it makes your life worse, much worse stripped of all of that.

So it's like an engagement engine like we haven't seen since what the Coliseum where it's like they're going to release these tigers on the Christians now. Like, all right, like I'm all in. Like, this is awesome. He was like looking around, you know, I get to like give a thumbs up down.

This is awesome. Like it's I see why it's so this is a perfect to me. It's a perfect example of why, you know, this company was worth $40 billion when Musk bought it. That's it's a perfect engagement machine. I don't know if it's too early to go into our new idea for a closing segment.

I think it probably is too early. But so you know, I for the first time, and we've recorded a couple of these completely spaced out during your last speech, and just without realizing I'm doing our last segment, I just started fantasizing about living in the woods. Like I literally just as you were talking about, like comparing TMZ to Twitter, I was just in my head like, this is so bad.

How do I escape all of this? And I just went the woods. That's how I escape all of it. I go to the woods, and that's where I live forever. And that's you live in the woods. You have a ranch. You don't know. I have I teach my daughters how to go get eggs from the chickens that we raise.

Yeah, that's it, dude. They got to be careful. I have a my dad's cousin. So let me call that he's long lived in West Texas. You got to be careful down there what you call a ranch. You cannot call I mean, he has hundreds of acres with cattle on it.

He would never call it a ranch. You're going to get run over by a Ford F-150. For it to be a ranch, it has to be. So you call it he has some term for it. But anyways, I'm just saying, get your ranch. Don't call it a ranch. To be fair, if Ryan Holiday walks into West Texas and talks about his 10 acre ranch, stoicism or not, there's going to be like a six shooter.

My ranch of a bookstore, the front porch, that's like a ranchers. Wouldn't it? No, I was going to call mine a compound of refuge. I was not going to call it a ranch. Definitely does not sound like a militia group type of situation. So it will be. Yeah, yeah, that is that's definitely the show.

But you know, Tucker Max has a new podcast about he went that route where he's just like teaching himself how to like live off the land with his family. And he's like, yeah, man, all that stuff I thought I needed before. I don't need it. And it is very interesting that I believe social media is a huge part in it.

It's pushing a lot of us back to what would be seen as like very old school traditional. Oh, yeah, I'm just like, yeah, I want to farm in a family and God, Mike, fuck, just said that. And it's like, oh, it's me. That's where this is all push me.

Yeah. Yeah. No, if there's no Twitter, it'd be like, I don't know, like I'm into some punk bands and in the art, like it's probably actually bad. Just get around another take and make music. And like, you know, but but because it causes like a reactionary immune response of of I need to get away from purified cultures represented online.

I wonder if it's created an issue where it's just bringing people out of other types of culture to be interesting. Like I'm into this like interesting art or new music movement because it causes a reactionary immune response. It's like, I'm just going to go whittle like I don't want to have anything to do with like anything modern.

So like stuff that's actually not online, but modern and interesting, you know, new types of theater, this or that maybe brings us back to Tumblr and the ponies, Tumblr and the ponies. All right. Let's do a couple let's do a couple happier ones here. Let's see what we got.

There's some. All right. Quick hits. Oh, dear. OK, I know what this is. All right. Good trial. All right. So this is this is a this is one of the most watched videos on YouTube. I just glanced at that and I literally thought you were like, let's do some happier stories.

And I thought it was like a cross burning on like a front lawn. And I was like, hey, bud, you're trying to get canceled here. What's your idea of a happy story? This is where I reveal my true. Yeah. OK, so this is it's hard to see, but this had eighty eight million views in just a few weeks.

OK, it's Mr. Beast. Do I have to because I want to find like what's popular on YouTube. He is the most subscribed YouTuber. So he has the most subscribers of anyone on YouTube. This one of his recent videos. It's one of the most popular videos on YouTube. The title here is Hydraulic Press versus Lamborghini.

I don't think there's a lot here. I'll just skip ahead. I won't play. I'll just skip the scene, man. Look at this. We got an ad. Isn't that just this is emblematic, by the way, of the whole. I think they're literally just crushing a car. We have to do a whole episode, by the way, on on YouTube ads because they're so good and they're so bad.

I know my favorite ones. My podcast producer always gets on my. Oh, here we go. They're crushing it. He always gets on my act about this because we have a YouTube channel for our podcast and he's like, you're not paying the like two dollars a month to not have to watch ads.

You're on because every time like, hey, let me show you something, you know, in the clip. Let's change this. We sit there and watch ads. But if you're if you're watching, there's a two hundred thousand dollar car being crushed in a hydraulic press. Eighty million views. Wow. That's what's popular, man.

But doesn't this. But look, my heart rate's not up like there's nothing about this that's like, OK, who's getting screwed with rage? Also, how how long is it? It's ten minutes. Because, again, the YouTube algorithm, it it prioritizes and incentivizes you to have things over ten minutes. So now we are at nine minutes and forty one.

Everyone watches to watch the Lamborghini gets crashed. So there's ten minutes or nine minutes and 40 seconds of not that of just like total garbage blah, blah, blah. And by the way, I don't want to say anything about Mr. B. Someone told me recently that he does like charity stuff, which like that would be cool.

I've never heard of Mr. B. That's how out of the loop I am. I hadn't either until my podcast producer told me about him because he's the I guess he's been doing the interview rounds. So it's kind of emerged. Yeah. All I know is from what I understand is he's much more popular than us.

He's a little bit more popular, a little bit more. But yeah, it's a I like I like to think of us as peers. So our our friend, Mr. B's, our fellow YouTuber. Yeah. I love what people do, though, like, you know, maybe I should I should have called him, you know, like maybe had him on the show next time.

You know, that move where you act like you really could do that. Like, yeah, like maybe we should next time we'll have the beast master. But what I understand is he took like a formula that was working on like, hey, this works well for YouTube and just pushed it times one hundred.

Well, and I'll see stuff like that where I'm like, it's like guy does a flip or like car thing does it and I'm just like, who watches this? And then you look at 88 million people do. That's who does. And yeah. And they all have like matching wacky thumbnails and all these things.

And what's so frustrating for me is to be vulnerable that I'll have these moments where people are big producers are talking to me about thumbnails and you just got to do this. And I'm just like, no, that's fucking stupid. And then I don't do it. And then I stay at the exact same place I'm at.

And you just go, damn it. Do Cal and I have to crush a fucking Lamborghini to get this show bigger? I don't know. I would like to not. We might have to. We might have to. But look, I don't know. This makes me happy because it's does it. He looks nice.

I don't know. Oh, he's nice. Like no one's being this is not like I crush a Lamborghini because it's racist. You know, he's just like crushing a Lamborghini. Right. I mean, this is like, well, what happened if we crush? I don't know. It's innocent. I'm trying to look him up right now.

I just wrote Dr. Beast by accident. Mr. Beast. Geez, I'm so old. Yeah, he does look nice. He is that Lamborghini full of immigrants. We're about to figure out now that I was actually a terrible person. The old lefty in me. Oh, my goodness. He's twenty four. All right.

Now, are you mad? He's credited with pioneering a genre of YouTube videos that centers around expensive stunts. Look, there's part of me. And maybe this is self-righteous. But if I have that much money, like. Eighty percent of that money is going to charity, not fucking. I don't know, man.

I think he get I. I think I don't know a lot. I think he gives it all away. I think I think what I've heard is he spins out like he has. He doesn't do cars or houses. Yeah, I don't think I think he's he's weird. Like from what I understand, like he's of YouTube.

He's like he's in the he's like an agent of his whole existence, I think, has merged with YouTube like there is no other. I don't think he has houses and jets. I think he just does this like his whole life. All right. Now, the scoreboard. I'm I think he's an interesting guy.

I'm going to look. I want to listen to at least he was probably on at least one of our friends podcasts. Well, here's what I saw when I was finding when I was looking to find a tweet about Lex and his books. The more recent tweet from like yesterday from Lex was a picture of Lex and Mr.

Beast. Interesting. And he was saying, I just had a mom. Let's see. Let me see if I can. It's still showing. Yeah. Let me see if I can. How to do this. I don't know how this is. Can we change the name of the podcast? The two old men try to figure out the Internet.

We have to yell to like our like a ten or my ten year old son, Max, the thing is doing the thing again, doing the thing again. Look, here we go. Lex Fridman. I got to hang out with Mr. Beast yesterday and discuss some fascinating ideas about the future YouTube and Twitter.

You know, steamer, brilliant, inspiring. We did a podcast about a few days. So like all of you would say like now I have to dislike Mr. Beast or how's that work? Is it if you're the interviewer or you have on old me already disliked Mr. Beast and I'm like talking myself out of it live on this show.

Old me already dislike Mr. Beast because of just assumptions from like thumbnails, success and jealousy, smashing expensive things. And I'm just like, well, we could have fed the homeless if we sold that Lamborghini or whatever. And and then I would see that Lex had him on that would confirm that he's a bad person.

And then I would have to two weeks late go. Lex Fridman's book list book is stupid. His book of his list of books is dumb and I hate him. So how does it go? Like what's worse or is it the same? So like let's say me going on Joe Rogan's podcast versus having Joe Rogan as a guest on my podcast.

So are you more culpable for interviewing someone versus being interviewed or does it go? It doesn't really matter. So what? So for me, the old version of me, I would probably be more mad at you for going on his show because if you are interviewing him, you can like try to hold him accountable or whatever.

But modern day people got really mad at Joe for having Alex Jones on and people got really mad at Lex for having. Did he actually he did have Kanye on, right? Yeah. Oh yeah. So now I think it's kind of like equally both, but before it was like if you went on Rogan's and this is, I feel like a year ago, but it's also like Rogan had like Bernie Sanders on.

So come on guys, what are you doing? And to me now it's like I go on, I go on platforms that are more right wing than me. Like I go on Glen Beck's a lot and the bottom line is like, well, I get my message out to a bunch of people who wouldn't have listened to me otherwise.

And I get to learn a bunch of things that I wouldn't have learned because I'm talking to someone sort of like outside of my network. And most importantly, you find out you actually have more in common with most people you think you disagree with the not. And then you get to go, Oh, hooray.

Like that's actually really good news. Like when I have people who get mad at me for going on a show they disagree with, I go, Hey man, aren't you happy? Aren't you happy that this person you like supposedly me gets to go on in front of these millions of people.

Or also like I bring back good news. I bring back the like, he's a good dude. Isn't that great? And then they're like, no, because we were already given our commands. Interesting. Right. Right. Because you could say it'd be positive. I'm bringing a message you would like to a new audience and maybe that would change.

No, because it's not actually about the message. It's just about like people turning humanity into a video game. Yeah. Okay. But also that like long segment you did on Glenn show where you got out the chalkboard and began sketching out the great reset or whatever. I sketched out specifically the January six attacks.

That's the type of thing. And look, I'm not, I don't want to judge just based on what show you go on, but when you were showing like the, the barrier, you know, that whole plan with the barriers over here are weaker and, and you know, it's a bad look.

Drawing the costumes. You drew the horns. Yeah. It's about, that was a bad look. I want our show to get so popular Cal that like we have, you know, and like people will send like fan art in. I'm like, I desperately want someone to draw the chalkboard. You do my goodness.

Okay. I mean, you'll be on a list, but here's how I've learned. Here's what I've learned just now looking at Mr. B's very popular channel. Our show is not going to be very popular. Lesson learned. Thanks, Mr. Beast. Well, now we get to know it's just, it's a passion project.

That's fine. It's a passion project. It's me, you, my producer, and like a few people who are yelling at us. I'll take it. All right. All right. One more. Our new thing for the, I want the very last thing when possible just to be, I'm interested, a meme and my, my motto for a meme being popular is that it was if it came over like my family's text chest text thread, then, so here we go.

This one was going around the internet. It's a little out of date now, but there we go. All right. This is just old school internet humor. If you're watching, it's one of those captures where you have to select all the speakers in a picture and there's a bunch of stairs speakers and two pictures of Kevin McCarthy and he's not selected.

Everyone's happy. It's a meme. It's funny. I was on Twitter during the Kevin McCarthy thing and I made one joke about it and it seemed to have brought both parties together. Once in a while you've got a politician that will unite people just from their hatred. You know, I feel like a Beto a little bit now, Kevin McCarthy, everyone's just like, yeah, you know what?

You're right, bud. Fuck that guy. And then we go. Yeah. Let's. So let's pass budget reconciliation as long as we're together on that. Let's just fix healthcare. Come on. Like as long as we're. Yeah. That's the key. Yeah. Well, I do like, I do like the idea of a meme, an episode bringing us together.

I was going to say someone sent me something via email that was going around on the Internet and it really may. I don't, I don't have it here, but I'd love to me. What makes the meme funny is just, I love just a straight. You have a straight lay straight face picture in an absurd thing.

Someone sent me a cover of a magazine from Rachel. Rachel Ray's on the cover. I think this is from like decades ago. It's the simple things. But the, the, the message on the meme was like, why commas are important. And it's like a real headline where it said like Rachel Ray finds inspiration in cooking her family and her dog.

And it's a picture of her holding her dog. And they didn't have the, they didn't have the a comma. No boy. It just kind of looked like she was going to eat her dog. Sure. That's what I want. That's what I want. That's what I'm. And you have to go out for.

Well, because you have to go, ah, silly internet. And then, you know, that dog's not getting eaten. And so everyone kind of wins. We all go. Yeah. Dog's fine. You're fine. Okay. She didn't eat her family. As far as I know, didn't eat her family. Everyone's happy. It was funny.

It's great. Internet more of that internet as email cow memes about being eaten. Yeah. Like memes from 20 years ago. Oh, actually. Yeah. And we'll, we'll, maybe we'll feature your meme on the show. Oh, you can also send us now that I'm on this fast. You can also send us articles you want us to talk about or leave it in the comments in the YouTube section.

Because, uh, again, I think that's why the show is funny, but we're the two worst people to be hosting the show. So we need your help. So if you like the show, spread the word about the show. Um, I usually say to follow me on social media, but don't subscribe to my sub stack.

You can do it for free. Read my writing, Jamie kilstein.substack.com and my mental health comedy podcast advice not taken. You can go to Jamie kilstein.com or you can go over to youtube.com/Jamie kilstein. We're starting to put videos up. Um, and that's it. And let me just, let me just briefly plug Jamie's sub stack.

He had a piece that was actually why good internet, because it was widely spread on the internet. Um, a really good piece about depression and suicidality and, and, you know, uh, how things can really change and really get better. So, uh, and I think it's important to emphasize like you really are coming at this from a strong mental health perspective.

I mean, you're a comedian, but also you've, you help a lot of people with mental health. And so, you know, you see it through that perspective where I see it more through the perspective of I'm just baffled in an old man. And I just don't understand. I just don't understand.

Give me the memes, give Cal memes about mental health. I want an animated gif, uh, yeah, an animated gif that I can download from an FTP server. Jamie just trying to jump off a bridge. I mean, yeah. Um, for real guys, like I think with the mental health stuff, I try to talk about it in a way that, um, a lot of people can relate to.

I didn't know I was helping as many people as I was. Um, but it's, it's because I'm, I'm not an expert and I'm going through it with you guys. Um, and I, I, I'm making sure not to like talk down, you know, you read some self help stuff that's like, Oh, I just, I go on my cold plunge every morning and then I, and you're just like, wow, what?

This is very unrelatable. Um, whereas I'm like, I'm fucking, I need health insurance. And they're like that guy, he's my guy. If he, if he can survive, I can survive. So, uh, expand. That means a lot. Yep. And I've been in a cold plunge this entire episode. I'm very ill.

You weak loser. I have been in a cold plunge and I've been holding a kettlebell in my right arm this whole, this whole time because that's my bow pulling arm. That's good. That's good. L-cunting. We're about to get famous now. I am on top of things. All right. So anyways, we're going to crush the Lamborghini and then we're out of here.

Uh, yep. Thank you everyone for watching. We'll be back. Yep. We'll be back soon. We'll be back with some more internet culture and until then stay offline. Yep.